OC1
Moderators: kenneth, sbroam, TheKrikkitWars, Mike W., Sir Adam, KNeal, PAC, adamin
Zoom, Phantom & Prelude
I tried out an early version of the Zoom this past spring (it had round APS pockets, they are now teardrop shaped). This boat is not at all like Esquif's three fantastic double chine boats. The response I got from others who had tried it was "TOO TIPPY". Once I got in it, I realized why they felt so tippy. The boat simply did not sit flat on the water, no matter what! It tilts to whichever side your paddle is on. At first, this felt very strange, especially when doing offside strokes. After a little while though, I realized that the boat was very stable in this AUTO TILT and with my new found confidence, I could easily tilt it away from the paddle too . My partner Shelly, felt so comfortable in the Zoom that she headed right for the play wave at the Glen (and there was still huge chunks of ice along the river banks)! Since the Zoom insists on being paddled on edge, it carves up a wave like nothing else.
The boat we tried was outfitted with Esquif's excellent double
strap system, they also do a very nice bulkhead system. I think the Zoom is best suited for smaller paddlers, though highly skilled boaters of all sizes should find it VERY responsive.
Had we not just purchased a new Blast, I'm sure the Zoom would have been added to the 'Fleet', it is still on my wish list.
Shelly also paddled a Phantom while at Madawaska, she was quite pleased with it. I'm not sure that it got a fair test though, since the water was very high. I have not been in one myself. Dagger no longer makes the Phantom (I have heard that next year, they will no longer make any canoes?) so you might need a little luck finding one.
I have regretted not test paddling the Prelude when I had the chance. This is a really friendly looking little boat, once you get past the fact that it is made of the same plastic as the kayaks. It comes fully outfitted too, with a bulkhead type system. Given the outstanding performance of Pyrahna kayaks, I'm sure the Prelude will not be a dissapointment.
Ceeb
The boat we tried was outfitted with Esquif's excellent double
strap system, they also do a very nice bulkhead system. I think the Zoom is best suited for smaller paddlers, though highly skilled boaters of all sizes should find it VERY responsive.
Had we not just purchased a new Blast, I'm sure the Zoom would have been added to the 'Fleet', it is still on my wish list.
Shelly also paddled a Phantom while at Madawaska, she was quite pleased with it. I'm not sure that it got a fair test though, since the water was very high. I have not been in one myself. Dagger no longer makes the Phantom (I have heard that next year, they will no longer make any canoes?) so you might need a little luck finding one.
I have regretted not test paddling the Prelude when I had the chance. This is a really friendly looking little boat, once you get past the fact that it is made of the same plastic as the kayaks. It comes fully outfitted too, with a bulkhead type system. Given the outstanding performance of Pyrahna kayaks, I'm sure the Prelude will not be a dissapointment.
Ceeb
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NZMatt
- Supporting Paddler
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 8:55 pm
- Location: Konolfingen, Switzerland
Three very different boats...
These are three very different boats, and what will work for you might well depend on your experience level. The Esquif Zoom seems to come with a "don't both if you're a beginner" warning in most of the reviews I've seen. I haven't had a chance to paddle one yet, but it's on my wish list of boats to try and maybe own.
The Prelude I found to be a very nice boat. I paddled one at the Wausau slalom course and played with it for a little. It seemed easy to roll, stable when full of water and it played very nicely. I also found it fast,which I very much liked. I paddled an Ocoee just after this and prefered the Prelude.
I currently paddle a Detonator which I like a lot but is very slow - the Detonator by the way is a very forgiving boat and would be a great option if you're less experienced: very stables and apparently very dry (I can't really speak to this as I have little to compare it to). I find it harder to roll than some of the other boats I've paddled (Ocoee and Prelude amongst them) but it handles both tight and technical and big water very well. It's also a bit of a pig when full of water, but that's no surprise given the hull shape.
The Phantom is a far more forgiving boat than either the Prelude or the Zoom. My wife has one and very much likes it. I see a lot of both relative beginners and experienced paddlers paddling these. The Phantom is definitely faster than the Detonator. I can't speak to rolling as my wife doesn't like any straps, so rolling isn't an option. There's a Phantom on Ebay right now from somewhere in the south.
Good luck!
Matt
The Prelude I found to be a very nice boat. I paddled one at the Wausau slalom course and played with it for a little. It seemed easy to roll, stable when full of water and it played very nicely. I also found it fast,which I very much liked. I paddled an Ocoee just after this and prefered the Prelude.
I currently paddle a Detonator which I like a lot but is very slow - the Detonator by the way is a very forgiving boat and would be a great option if you're less experienced: very stables and apparently very dry (I can't really speak to this as I have little to compare it to). I find it harder to roll than some of the other boats I've paddled (Ocoee and Prelude amongst them) but it handles both tight and technical and big water very well. It's also a bit of a pig when full of water, but that's no surprise given the hull shape.
The Phantom is a far more forgiving boat than either the Prelude or the Zoom. My wife has one and very much likes it. I see a lot of both relative beginners and experienced paddlers paddling these. The Phantom is definitely faster than the Detonator. I can't speak to rolling as my wife doesn't like any straps, so rolling isn't an option. There's a Phantom on Ebay right now from somewhere in the south.
Good luck!
Matt
NZMatt
Hmmm....new country, new rivers...-
Still not enough c-boaters....
Hmmm....new country, new rivers...-
Still not enough c-boaters....
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Martyn
I have been paddling a Prelude pretty well exclusively this season. I like it because it is more durable than a royalex boat, it is about as fast as a Phantom, drier than the boats I was paddling before (like the Skeeter) and seems to have an uncanny ability to save my butt when I do things I shouldn't.
Having said that, the Prelude has no primary stability. I'm not sure what you are paddling now, but a lot of people have said they find the Prelude twitchy. You are pretty well committed to the bulkhead style of outfitting with the Prelude. The Mike Yee style stuff won't really work in that boat as it isn't possilbe to glue it to the rotomolded plastic (as far as I know, but if I'm wrong, someone please tell me).
The Phantom isn't a bad boat. Lots of people really like theirs. Bigger people (225 lbs + ?) and beginners seem to find it frustrating. Oh yeah, and its a pig when its full of water.
If you are thinking of buying a Phantom, the yellow hulls seem to hold up better than the red ones. Don't ask me why, I've just seen lots of red Pahantoms with soft hulls and the yellow hulls don't seem to go soft.
I like the Zoom. Esquif will now make them without the pockets. I'd never been able to figure out how to use them. The Zoom is faster than the other Esquif boats, but probably not as forgiving.
The Zoom, Prelude and Phantom are very different boats. Which one is best for you will depend a lot on your paddling style. I think the Prelude is the best OC1 available, but there are others who feel the same way about the Phantom and the Zoom.
Good luck with yor search.
Martyn
Having said that, the Prelude has no primary stability. I'm not sure what you are paddling now, but a lot of people have said they find the Prelude twitchy. You are pretty well committed to the bulkhead style of outfitting with the Prelude. The Mike Yee style stuff won't really work in that boat as it isn't possilbe to glue it to the rotomolded plastic (as far as I know, but if I'm wrong, someone please tell me).
The Phantom isn't a bad boat. Lots of people really like theirs. Bigger people (225 lbs + ?) and beginners seem to find it frustrating. Oh yeah, and its a pig when its full of water.
If you are thinking of buying a Phantom, the yellow hulls seem to hold up better than the red ones. Don't ask me why, I've just seen lots of red Pahantoms with soft hulls and the yellow hulls don't seem to go soft.
I like the Zoom. Esquif will now make them without the pockets. I'd never been able to figure out how to use them. The Zoom is faster than the other Esquif boats, but probably not as forgiving.
The Zoom, Prelude and Phantom are very different boats. Which one is best for you will depend a lot on your paddling style. I think the Prelude is the best OC1 available, but there are others who feel the same way about the Phantom and the Zoom.
Good luck with yor search.
Martyn
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Ocoee Boater
- Pain Boater
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2003 5:11 am
- Location: Sierras, California Side!!!
...
I own a Dagger Ocoee and Im super happy with it. The reason i didnt get that smaller boat like the phantom or one of the esquif boats is because to really get a handle on them you need a good couple days to get the balance and everything. I was tipping left and right and even though i can roll OC1 it still was hard. Granted all you need is at least a few days of solid paddling but the ocoee was just the perfect mix at 11 feet.
You can pick your friends
You can pick your nose
But you cant pick your friend's nose!
You can pick your nose
But you cant pick your friend's nose!
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the great gonzo
- Paddling Benefactor
- Posts: 1718
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:03 am
- Location: Montréal, Québec
Short OC1
I can only second Martyns comments about the Prelude.
It handles pretty much like a shortened Ocoee. It's a wee bit slower in top speed than a regular length Ocoee and has no primary stability, but really excellent secondary stability once it is on edge. Manoeuvrability is excellent. so is stability when full of water. I love it in big water as well as in tight technical stuff.
A big plus is the material, Polyethylene in stead of Royalex, which m,akes it so much more abrasion resistant.
I never paddled a Zoom, but my concern there is the material, as I see lots of Esquif boats on the river with worn off vinyl.
The Phantom is a good boat, not really my cup of tea, as the Prelude is much more lively, but a bit more forgiving; but I know lots of paddlers who really love their Phantoms. The only problem with Dagger boats is that you are stuck with getting a used one, as they stopped production of OC.
As for the Maxim, I have never seen one and the only paddler I know who paddled one was a beginner at the time, so I am not going to post his comments.
martin
It handles pretty much like a shortened Ocoee. It's a wee bit slower in top speed than a regular length Ocoee and has no primary stability, but really excellent secondary stability once it is on edge. Manoeuvrability is excellent. so is stability when full of water. I love it in big water as well as in tight technical stuff.
A big plus is the material, Polyethylene in stead of Royalex, which m,akes it so much more abrasion resistant.
I never paddled a Zoom, but my concern there is the material, as I see lots of Esquif boats on the river with worn off vinyl.
The Phantom is a good boat, not really my cup of tea, as the Prelude is much more lively, but a bit more forgiving; but I know lots of paddlers who really love their Phantoms. The only problem with Dagger boats is that you are stuck with getting a used one, as they stopped production of OC.
As for the Maxim, I have never seen one and the only paddler I know who paddled one was a beginner at the time, so I am not going to post his comments.
martin
Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing - Henry David Thoreau
The Maxim is a pretty advanced boat, I was a little big for it, so both things worked against me. Not a good first boat. It has NO primary stability, that's really bothersome for me (perhaps not in a couple years... but not now). Good luck.