Mike W. wrote:KNeal, Good joke
Oh wait! I just re-read your post. You asked about "technically-minded top competitors" HA HA HA I'm just a hack also-ran so disregard everything I've typed
Are you saying, "KNeal, Good joke", as in I'm a joke?!
Or are you saying, "KNeal, Good joke", like I said something funny!?
Mike W. wrote:Oh wait! I just re-read your post. You asked about "technically-minded top competitors" HA HA HA I'm just a hack also-ran so disregard everything I've typed
Crap! Guess I'll delete my post then.
Good joke,
KNeal
C-boats Moderator
"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
Mike W, I am interested in what all paddlers say, but for purposes of this thread I am most interested in the opinion of the current WW downriver world champion.
Actually, I sort of answered my question by finding several videos of European closed canoe wildwater races. All the competitors are in highly swedeform delta boats with high volume winged sterns. The solo paddlers seem to stay on the same side most of the time, but some switch sometimes. The paddles all seem straight with curved powerfaces. I assume they are kneeling.
Penobscots? It sounds like American open canoe downriver races are less ... uh ... technically ... uh ... sophisticated than European wildwater or American flatwater. Maybe there's still hope for me in that case. I can do a forward stroke. Is that still allowed in 21st century WW?
John C, thanks for those gala links. Never before heard of a double torque canoe shaft. I can now understand the confusion.
I do have a double bent shaft Mitchell Leader and a ZRE lightweight outrigger flexshaft. Those are my two primary paddles for my Huki V1-B ... which is the ultimate 21st century OC-1 (va'a) ... combining the best of pod boats with the best of SOT's to surf 20 foot waves with a single blade.
KNeal, you typed something funny This is the joke that I was referring to:
KNeal wrote:Mike W. needs to weigh in on this!
KNeal
Glenn MacGrady wrote:Penobscots? It sounds like American open canoe downriver races are less ... uh ... technically ... uh ... sophisticated than European wildwater or American flatwater
This has been hashed over before, but most of the "top" OC downriver racers have composite boats, but they have chosen to race plastic. At last year's Nationals there was only one composite downriver race boat that showed up. There were also a composite slalom boat, an Esquif made of Twintex & a Royalex Mad River ME that was pulled in too much to meet the 16% rule. That was it for the "race" class.
Glenn MacGrady wrote:Penobscots? It sounds like American open canoe downriver races are less ... uh ... technically ... uh ... sophisticated than European wildwater or American flatwater
most of the "top" OC downriver racers have composite boats, but they have chosen to race plastic.
I don't follow racing much, but what mildly surprised me is not so much plastic vs. composite, but the apparent lack of specialized downriver open canoe hulls.
The European decked wildwater races have the delta boats I described. So do American flatwater races ... those strange looking (to me) bat-winged Jensen delta's. And WW open slalom, of course, has always been a fertile field for developing cutting edge hulls.
Perhaps there is just a lack of participation in US downriver, and hence no market for hull development. Doesn't surprise me. In my 50+ years of paddling, canoes have been going extinct. Except for the Canadian interior, where they still flourish, and some neighboring border states, single blades have become a rarity in all North American waters.
late, and possibly too late. but as a slalom competitor, and non-dr person. the most skilled dr people i have seen, the jr worlds 07 charlotte. and a few various world cups here in eu, alot of folks have switched to the new polish company gpower for paddles. they were developed by the french(neat design) and made by the poles(well built) and their new flagship slalom paddle(all one piece carbon) has a 3 degree offset at the blade. most of the dr paddles seem to stay straight, they run a much higher stroke rate, and generally just go for stiffness. i can't recall what the gpower site is, i think it's gpower.pl or something, try google.
cheers
-ids
race boats are so fast, i bet its in the speed wing.
Assuming wildwater means decked boats, paddled in the kneeling position through class 3-4 whitewater, in the canoe classes (c-1 and C-2) straight shafts with curved blades are most prevalent. However, there are exceptions. Almost all of the Germans use bent shafts, similar to slalom, not flatwater, bent shafts.
At least one of the British does so. I have experimented with slalom type bent shafts, and found them to be fine for speed, control, bracing, rolling. But not so fine that I didn’t go back to straight shaft, curved blade. I found it impossible to use a flatwater or outrigger style bent shaft- just didn’t work at all for me, even on a lake. I’ve included the comments of the Brit who used a slalom style bent shaft: “I have used cranks in C1 for a while now; they work differently to a kayak, but you might be interested in my waffle anyway. I found the cranked shaft gives much more support and grip at the initial stage of the stroke _ which means I can pull hard sooner. The shafts tend to angle the blade forwards slightly, which enables the blade to be placed more vertically which is a stronger position for pulling on the paddle, working similar principles to flat water paddles.”
That's all I know...edg
Isaac- Good eye. The Euro's are willing to experiment. I have actually held a c-1 "wing" some Czech tried for wildwater. Supposedly, it was awesome on the flats, but impossible to use for any steering strokes. Live up the Euro trip to the fullest...edg
Glenn MacGrady wrote:...Those are my two primary paddles for my Huki V1-B ... which is the ultimate 21st century OC-1 (va'a) ... combining the best of pod boats with the best of SOT's to surf 20 foot waves with a single blade.
Theoretically.
Ahhh, very nice. I would love to try one. My plastic outrigger (Nalu) is but a taste of the "other" OC-1 style...
This is the joke that I was referring to: 
