Broken Nose Video from Saturday

Alden · Post by **Alden** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:08 am

Hey Lengthy,

No, you're right -- I did skip the Upper Yough on Saturday. Stuff was up, so we went to the Upper Blackwater instead. We got two runs in, got to show a few first-timers down, and I paddled with another cboater (Seth Chapelle). It was awesome!

I am planning to hit the Upper Yough on Friday, if you're around though. What kind of boat do you paddle?

Alden

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:25 am

He paddles a big one and is the upper blackwater the hardest section of that river or are all section hard? Than river and Mann Ck were two runs that paul Fantettie couldn't stop talkin about. I haven't done either but would like to see them both.

Alden · Post by **Alden** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:37 am

Yes, the Upper Blackwater is the class V run you're thinking of. It's a classic. The Lower Blackwater is good too (class IV).

The high-water alternative is the North Fork of the Blackwater (class V), which is also nearby. It's more slides, while the Upper B is boulders.

Been lucky enough to paddle the Upper many times with cboaters -- Stumpfel, Dr. Ditty, Bernie, and Seth.

Alden

Longboatin · Post by **Longboatin** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:03 am

In this UY vs. Telli - not sure the numbers tell the full story. Sure the Telli get a greater average gradient, but its only 2 miles total. The full UY run is 9 some with flat at both ends, so the gradient average doesnt really give a good idea of whats up in the actual rapids section.
I'll wager you only remember a handfull of things from the run Louie, because theres a whole shidload of stuff going on. Not because theres nothin there.

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:52 am

Watched the vid again thinking about the "hard knocks" style, ropes, rescues, etc., and I was watching the lone paddler who pinned on the mid-river boulder at the right edge of the screen.

I almost lost a friend in a foot entrapment in a pretty similar scenario. So, yeah, swimming is OK, and big groups are fun, and it's really great to see newbies canoeing the rivers, but bad stuff can happen, and it requires a tight group to rectify it.

Just offering a note of caution becasue that one guy's struggle with his pinned canoe reminded me of what ended in a scary way on a trip I was on last year. Bad stuff can happen in spots like that to paddlers like that. Not meaning to critisize the group, just sharing a bad memory and offering a reminder.

Pat.

SkeeterGuy86 · Post by **SkeeterGuy86** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:20 am

yarnellboat wrote:Watched the vid again thinking about the "hard knocks" style, ropes, rescues, etc., and I was watching the lone paddler who pinned on the mid-river boulder at the right edge of the screen.

I almost lost a friend in a foot entrapment in a pretty similar scenario. So, yeah, swimming is OK, and big groups are fun, and it's really great to see newbies canoeing the rivers, but bad stuff can happen, and it requires a tight group to rectify it.

Just offering a note of caution becasue that one guy's struggle with his pinned canoe reminded me of what ended in a scary way on a trip I was on last year. Bad stuff can happen in spots like that to paddlers like that. Not meaning to critisize the group, just sharing a bad memory and offering a reminder.

Pat.

thanks Pat

and yeah pins do make for really bad memories ... i wouldnt know what i would do in that situation ... i know what its like to work automobile wrecks with casualties and the memory still haunts me

so thanks for your post

Skeet

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:08 am

Bad stuff does happen and broken nose is as nasty as of a spot as on the the Ocoee. We really pay a little better attention than it looks like and with the kids that day we were even lookin around more than usual, and like Larry Homes said they are an awful lot of people on that river, the joke for years was that they was never any need to set up a Z drag it would be quicker to just muster up a hundred man workin party. Jarred Knee which everyone I know has swum a hundred times almost got a yankee at ALF so it can and does happen at the least exspected times.
Lenghty the shortness of the Tellico and the ability to scout everything from the road does make a difference and I reviewed some old videos and there are a couple of other I do recall but I think they Yough got it high IV and V ratin form the fact it was one of earlier creek that you Yankee were doin , you all tend to BS a lot and with the northern natural physical short comin you will say anything to impress the girls. Of course start tryin that with some souther boater chick and she will listen very politely and reply "how nice"

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:36 pm

yarnellboat wrote:Watched the vid again thinking about the "hard knocks" style, ropes, rescues, etc., and I was watching the lone paddler who pinned on the mid-river boulder at the right edge of the screen.

Pat.

The upstream lean prior to that flip is what had me a bit nervous as an onlooker.

Always Always Always lean into/onto the rock or obstruction and brace yourself upright with it if possible until you or someone else can get you off or away from it... please.

There's no crime in swimming and personally I'd like to see everyone out there taught to have a bomber roll... but sometimes learning little things to save yourself in the event of a mishap or bad line are far more important.

Be careful out there folks.

Yukon · Post by **Yukon** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:50 pm

I hear you Pat
Looked like one for themselves and lots of carnage for sure, I am glad we dont have traffic jams like that up here. I am lucky to paddle with a good group that watches out for each other. And probably the biggest reason I have not paddled with yakers very often - too many surprises

It also reaffirms to me to make sure you are comfortable with the group you are paddling with and to not be afraid to be vocal. A few years ago I was on an easy river grade 2 with some friends. I was playing a bit more and they took off way down the run. When I finally caught up with them I told them just cuz I am a good boater doesnt mean the safety group ideas go out the window. I can hit my head on a rock as easy as anyone else.

I dont mind boating by myself but it is a much different mind set and approach. I did a first decent of a Grade 2 creek solo a few years ago and it was a blast- found a 5 km canyon with a good gradient that was all very clean and straight foward. But really fun as every corner feels like something big is coming. It was a blast doing it alone knowing my judgement was just for me and I alone to deal with consequences of my descions

Yukon · Post by **Yukon** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:08 pm

Well I went back and read a lot of the posts and do agree with Self Resue is a criticial and important skill to have. We teach self rescue at our whitewater courses and have set up all our canoes with specific end bags and bungies that go through the sides of the hull instead of the deck plates. makes it much easier to pull the bag for a self rescue swim. When we teach and practice the skill we try to make sure we are right there in our boat giving encouragement, pointers and there if things become too much for the swimmers

After people have done some self rescues it is sure great to see their confidence boost that they can try things and pick up the pieces for themselves and not reliant on anyone else. We have even tried changing the name to self recovery instead of self rescue- Rescues sound like some major and serious...

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:20 pm

here's another quick pointer that people either don't realize, they have never been taught or completely forget about after swimming... FLIP THE BOAT BACK UPRIGHT!!!!!

an upside down canoe is like a giant drag chute and it can be nearly impossible to control no matter if you are trying to get it to shore yourself or you are the one trying to get it to shore for someone else. rightside up will give you a far better chance.

step one... get to the overturned boat
step two... flip it over (don't worry if there's water in it right away)
step three... grab onto the bow or stern the same way you would if you were swimming (feet up and hugging the boat like your mommy... screaming is optional)
step four... kick your feet like you are doing a back ferry to get towards shore
step five... get onshore... collect your thoughts and get your keister right back out there

of course this doesn't work in all scenarios... especially while creeking or if you really get seperated from your boat... but in most instances it actually works quite well.

ever tried to drag a kayak full of water to shore that doesn't have flotation in it? it sucks.

swimming is not a crime... not knowing what to do after it happens should be.

Post by **sbroam** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:12 pm

alternate step 3 :

Climb back in the boat with or without assistance of fellow boaters

I'd rather paddle a swamped boat than swim next to or dragging one - especially a ways from shore.

gumpy · Post by **gumpy** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:28 pm

step 6: learn to roll. its way more fun, and safer, too.

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:32 pm

Got to with you on that one, sure on a tiny creek get to bank and pull you boat over to you. In the middle of the New or Grand Canyon flip the thing over and hope one of your buddies will hold one side down while you climb back in.

However this topic raise another point we don't like to talk about.

Painters, which are for you FNG's, are a lenght of line, the lenght of your boat attached to both bow and sterns. Just like the buttboater quit usin airbags because they were too cool and never swum. Open boaters quit usin them for pretty much the same reason but to justify not havin them they would say it was for safety reason they quit usin them. Well beside the fact that you can never have too much rope with you, be it or a river , a date, or crusin a singles bar, a ten foot hank of rope attached to your boat makes your arm ten foot longer than what it normally is. Picture this you are ten foot from the drop at Sunshine and ten foot out in the current and the hand of God reaches down and flips your boat over and snaps your paddle into two pieces( we all know this is the only reason you should ever swim). well as you are casually makeing your way the ten foot to the bank you grap the careful coiled painter and take it with you two feet from the shore you stand up and pull on the painter which prevent the last two feet of your boat from followin the first six foot off the drop. You quickly pull your boat back to where you are standing and tell the butt boater in the eddy above you" no I didn't swim I just stoped to dump my boat and take a break". A story which is a little harder for the butt boater to believe if he watchin your boat float on down river toward the next rapid.
And before you start let me say this if you don't know how to store a painter to where it isn't an entrapement danger... well before I hurt anyone feeling just let me say I'll show you how.

Post by **sbroam** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:45 pm

+1 on painters. I don't have painters on the SF, but I do clip my smallest throw bag to the rear bag cage - serves the same purpose. I'm thinking of cutting it down to about 15' as 30+' of rope in painter mode might be a case of "too much"...

+1 on rolling - far more convenient, but you need more than one trick.

C-Forum

Broken Nose Video from Saturday

Telli vs. Upper