Fast kayaks for potential conversion?

jrsh92 · Post by **jrsh92** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:37 pm

What about an Atom? There's one available near me right about now... a solid 3 feet shorter than the Gyramax, it probably feels like less of an ocean liner but it's designed as a C-1...

Post by **sbroam** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:26 pm

By all means - an Atom will be a step up from the Gyramax, though the ones I have tried have been on the heavy side. Maybe not as fast in a straight line than the Gyramax, but a more current design.

jrsh92 · Post by **jrsh92** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:07 pm

I'm thinking that's probably a good step up... from all accounts the Atom isn't a slow boat which is what really matters... while I'd love to get out on whitewater every week, I am 2 minutes from the closest lake and I go there to get in paddling time whenever possible, and practice rolls, etc... It's just too much of a slog to paddle, say, a 6 foot playboat across a lake for me to be motivated to get out and do it... and that boat would be slower as a C-1.
The Atom seems to have more rocker than the Gyramax (which has roughly no rocker) and at 3 feet shorter is probably maneuverable enough to take down pretty serious whitewater with practice-- the Gyramax is limited simply because I can't turn it around. If it's reasonably fast for it's size the length and the edges should make it both a more interesting paddle and functional on more technical water. I'm going to contact the guy selling the Atom about it and see if I can work this out.

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:17 am

jrsh92:

It's just too much of a slog to paddle, say, a 6 foot playboat across a lake for me to be motivated to get out and do it... and that boat would be slower as a C-1.

Any WW boat will suck on a lake.

insolence:

but if a whitewater boat is wanted, try the finkenmeister from robson - better than any conversion ever can be

i'm gonna have to disagree

TheKrikkitWars:

Wavesport Habitiat (not amazingly fast, but a boat thats considered to be a better converted than as a kayak; might help you get one cheap),

Really? I like the looks of those hulls, but thought they might be a little too much on the displacement side of things. ie; lacking primary stabililty. Don't know anyone who has tried one.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:09 am

Larry Horne wrote: TheKrikkitWars:
Wavesport Habitiat (not amazingly fast, but a boat thats considered to be a better converted than as a kayak; might help you get one cheap),
Really? I like the looks of those hulls, but thought they might be a little too much on the displacement side of things. ie; lacking primary stabililty. Don't know anyone who has tried one.

I've paddled one and enjoyed it and I know I'm not alone in having liked it:

Its a lot better than the Nomad or Jefe for primary stability, seems to be because the back 1/3 has quite defined chine/rail thingies.

This said personally I can't see why more C1ers don't go down the displacment hulled route.

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:01 pm

Nice thread... and picture Joshua!

Anybody has a web resource on what is exactly water displacement (VS other types) hull? I would like to know a little more... Maybe I have to start a new topic?

I always thought of it a something between round and flat bottom, regardless of what the chines looks like...?

I that way I would think of my Remix of being a water displacement hull, with quite soft chines, would that makes sense?

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:36 pm

Planing hulls are generally flat (or sometimes concave to encourage cavitation) in order to plane over fast water,

Displacement seems to be a definition for pretty much everything else. The remix is funny because it has the defined rails traditionaly found in planing hulls, but it's made of two curves of vastly differing radii, rather than a flat and curve giving it very odd charicteristics

I should add that the picture isn't me but Ben McKeown, Probably britains gnarliest C1'er paddling his Habitat in Vietnam.

insolence · Post by **insolence** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:54 pm

hey Larry Horne, you disagree about the Finkenmeister
. please tell me why!
Any better ideas?

It's that I love the Finkenmeister, but am looking for alternatives since this boat is just huge. So I'm not sure wether it makes the best joyce smaller persons as an ready-to-rescue-the-devil's-grandmother-from-hades creekboat.
My Kendo Ev is great but for future I'd like something slightly bigger, bit more chines, lot's of speed and responsivity that corresponds well with my technical slalom paddling style

The remix feels not bad, but it didn't make me fall in love with neither

The atom - maybe, I will test one the next time I can find one
but the Gyramax? I don't know, it's really very, very long. Probably one must be very familiar with it to ride it well

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:11 pm

hey Larry Horne, you disagree about the Finkenmeister
. please tell me why!
Any better ideas?

well you started it!

you're the one that said it's "better than any conversion ever can be"

I only spent a few minutes in a fink, but what i found was;
1. it didn't have enough initial stability for me. I like initial stability AND secondary stability. I am much more confident, and thus can paddle better if I don't have to worry about flipping in silly water. I just don't have good enough balance for that type of boat.
2. tiny cockpit. I hate that.
3. too long and pointy. Deck is too high.
4. from what i've witnessed, it takes more work to get the Fink outfitting dialed than just doing a conversion from scratch.
5. (and this is big one) they look funny

Any better ideas?

Medium or small Burn or H3

insolence · Post by **insolence** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:13 pm

oh yeah, it's ugly, that's right - the shape ok, it is functional but with this awful red-yellow thing (or red-black) they've got going, no way ;)
but for the ultimate thrill in beauty, elegance and style I'd recommend a slalom OC1 anyway (just not the flowerpot ones like CUfly, Spanish Fly or Quake)

allright, I got your point.

hm, I was ok with initial stability and cockpit size.

when I rode it, it felt so good, as if it were just meant for someone paddling my style. Even more than my 'til that day near-perfect Kendo conversion.
just - it was so big, so I'm not sure wether in hard water it would provide the fast and direct reactions to my movements I wish to get from my boat. If they had it one or two sizes smaller, I'd buy it immediately, but this way I need to look for something else

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:29 pm

Larry Horne wrote:
hey Larry Horne, you disagree about the Finkenmeister
. please tell me why!
Any better ideas?
well you started it! you're the one that said it's "better than any conversion ever can be"

I only spent a few minutes in a fink, but what i found was;
1. it didn't have enough initial stability for me. I like initial stability AND secondary stability. I am much more confident, and thus can paddle better if I don't have to worry about flipping in silly water. I just don't have good enough balance for that type of boat.
2. tiny cockpit. I hate that.
3. too long and pointy. Deck is too high.
4. from what i've witnessed, it takes more work to get the Fink outfitting dialed than just doing a conversion from scratch.
5. (and this is big one) they look funny

Any better ideas?
Medium or small Burn or H3

Hmm, I don't know. Never paddled a Burn or an H3, but I tried an Everest coversion a while ago, and I gladly handed it back to it's owner and hopped back into my FM. It wasn't any more stable, was WAY slower, didn't pivot and narrow cockpit sucked. It didn't even offer better maneuvrability than the finkenmeister, despite being significantly shorter.
I have yet to find a conversion I wouldf take over my Finkenmeister.

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:31 am

I knew the hammer was gonna come down

we'll just have to agree to disagree.

you have any water up there in the loops? we have some releases that are keeping me happy through the summer. but it's gonna get dry before too long and then i'll be in a fightin mood.

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:46 am

Don't know too many rivers yet, I just moved to the Loops 3 days ago.
But I had a look at the Adams (less than oner hour away while driving here, and that one still has water. So does the Illecillewaet in Revelstoke (2 hours) and as far as I ma told the Thompson and the Clearwater are still good to go, too.

TGG!

xmas0c1c1k1 · Post by **xmas0c1c1k1** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:05 am

the finks deck is way to high always hit it when i was doing cross strokes i did not like the stern to full to really squit on purpose but not full enough to not get back endered outfitting and cockpit size were awful my 2 cents

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:20 pm

I actually find particularly the stern design brilliant.
Just low enough to sink it a tad to do shallow pivot turns.
Enough volume not to do full stern enders, but to sink the stern just enough into the green water to help push the boat through that big hole.

TGG!