Outfitting for death

biggreenjefe · Post by **biggreenjefe** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:09 am

Sorry about the dramatic title, but being in the process of outfitting a new playboat, I've noticed (from looking at pics) that a lot of c1's seem to be outfitted in such a way that it would take real work to get out of one. My last c1(forplay) was definitely so. To feel like I was locked in enough to be able to pull off some moves, it was such that if I needed to swim I'd have been in deep sh*t. Now I could certainly be wrong and would like to be so, but don't most of us have a bulkhead to pull, thigh straps or lap belt, and some kind of hip bracing(padding) that narrows the gap where our feet would then slide out in our boats that are set up more for play. And in these boats we end up doing a lot of river running. To give an idea I'll post some pics when I finish my outfitting and would LOVE some critique on improvements. I have a bulkhead, thigh straps and hip braces. Maybe that's just the way it is, I don't know. Let me know.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:05 am

I though that until I took a roasting in "Bell wave" on the nile (no one told me it became a nine foot tall hole at some levels), after a good 40 seconds trying to roll, I went for my deck and the quick release on my straps; BAM! just got out instantly and started swimming for the surface, do some practice wet-exits until you can do it half asleep from lack of air and its all good!

(bulkhead & thigh straps, but no hip hugger for me my arse is pretty much the width of the cockpit

)

markzak · Post by **markzak** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:59 pm

I agree...not to downplay the potential danger of some C1 outfitting styles...but I've found pretty much no matter how tight I am in a thigh strap set-up (not a suicide lap belt)....I can pop right out of the boat. I have found that instead of struggling upside down to get your knees up and out of the boat, focus on driving your feet back into the stern and you'll slide right out. Kind of like standing up, while upside down to get out of your boat. Thigh straps attached closer to your crotch will be a harder to get out of and thigh straps attached near your knees are the easiest to get out of.

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:26 pm

You can actually slip out of a lapstrap setup like the one on my playboat if you push hard enough and if the strap wasn't putted too thight.

And I agree on the importance of the anchor positioning. On my new creeker I had my straps a little too far (towards the knee) so I had to get my roll right the first time, otherwise I would come out of the seat pretty easily. I then changed for a lapstrap hoping for an improvement but with the same anchor points pretty much no change.

Looks like my boat is going to have some extra holes in it soon.

dgmonster · Post by **dgmonster** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:19 pm

My play boat has double thigh straps and a lap belt. The lab belt has a huge T-handle as the release. It works well. I do agree with TheKrikkitWars you do need to practice swimming a lot with what you have got. I also tell my friends how to get me out if I am knocked out. I have had one bad bigwater swim with my lap belt on. Once I pulled the lap belt I did not even have to think about getting out of my boat. The hole that had been barrel rolling me back looping me and cartwheeling me while I was upside down literally ripped me out of the boat!

--dave

jrsh92 · Post by **jrsh92** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:03 pm

markzak wrote:instead of struggling upside down to get your knees up and out of the boat, focus on driving your feet back into the stern and you'll slide right out.

This is what I've found. No matter how tight and enclosing your thigh straps feel, move your feet back and your thighs will come loose from them to some extent... at that point just stand up out of the saddle and you're tumbling. While getting into my boat I feel like I'd have a hard time getting out upside down... but then I realize that half of the time when I get out on dry land I'm not actually undoing the thigh straps-- I just pull the skirt and work my way out.

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:05 am

Recently I was at my local playspot while several fire & rescue SWR teams were training. After talking to the guy in the jet boat he wanted the rest of the guys to see how I was in the boat. They all looked real concerned as I got in, buckled my suicide belt & put the skirt on the boat. Then I showed them how to pull the skirt, lift the skirt find & unbuckle my belt, slide me towards the stern to release my knees from the bulkhead, then up & out. And they thought they could just pull me out.

I told 'em it wasn't a big deal cause if I was in trouble I'd probably be dead by the time they got in the truck, drove to the river & got to me w/ the jet boat. They didn't see the humor in that.

I like a bulkhead, hip pads & a lap-belt. Here's a Forplay that I set up: http://cboats.net/c_db/list.php?type=5& ... me=Forplay

I paddle on the right, so I set up my lap-belts w/ a cam buckle that pulls from right to left to release. That way I hold my paddle w/ the (right) shaft hand, pull the skirt w/ the left, then pull the lap-belt from right to left w/ my left hand.

kiwic1chick · Post by **kiwic1chick** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:54 am

I use a lap belt and thigh straps made of snowboard bindings. These are all attached to two quick-release buckles, which are attached to a tag which sits in the same place on the boat as the spraydeck tag. So all I have to do is pop the deck and everything comes undone. I've never actually had to use this in whitewater (my roll is bombproof) but it releases just fine in the pool when someone's shaking the boat.
If you're worried about finding your quick-release buckles, just run a string off them with something to grab in the same place as your deck tag. Impossible to miss.

biggreenjefe · Post by **biggreenjefe** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:46 am

Yeah I have thigh straps of seat belt webbing with cam buckles and a length of hose covered cord linking the two, so one easy pull and they're both undone. I feel like I jumped the gun a little with this topic however. I've always told my girlfriend when she has been worried about being too tight in her boat, "Don't worry love, when you want out, you'll explode out with an adrenaline rush." I think it may have been the way this boat is set up. With some judicious use of the heat gun, I've moved some plastic tabs out of the way and exit is much easier now.

All this leads me to a question...anyone know where I can get some metal cam buckles? While playing and rolling the webbing starts to slide through these plastic buckles I have. I searched the internet and went to our local airport....alas, to no avail. Any help would be appreciated.

phreon · Post by **phreon** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:29 pm

Something like this?

http://www.joediveramerica.com/page/JDA/PROD/BB2

Or this?

http://www.seattlefabrics.com/cam_buckles.html

or this?

http://www.gotbelts.com/60nochlilela.html

Phreon

oopsiflipped · Post by **oopsiflipped** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:33 pm

if outfitting isn't tight enough to be a little scary, it probably isn't tight enough. took new remix out for first time sunday and what felt good in the basement was an auto eject when i flipped. added 3" to bulkhead last night and eager to see how it goes. i've gone strapless for the first time.

biggreenjefe · Post by **biggreenjefe** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:40 pm

Thanks Phreon, went to a dive shop this morning and picked up 4 metal cam buckles. And yeah oops, I'm on my third tweaking. Now I can barely get my butt in, so I hope I am getting there. I guess I'm no different than all other men...I like it tight

(apologies kiwichick). I'm planning on boating on Friday, so I'll get to try it all out once more. Now about that remix...a good creeker or all around river runner?...I may get to go to Costa Rica in Dec.

jrsh92 · Post by **jrsh92** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:42 am

On an outfitting-related note, I'm having trouble using my Atom's outfitting.
The straps go through metal rings bolted to the cockpit rim.
This is where you would do/undo them every time you got in and out of the boat-- if it worked better...
You tighten them by pulling the free end through the ring towards the center of the boat, and velcro-ing it to itself (pretty standard). The problem is that the hook and loop sections of the velcro that need to stick to each other are small and close together. You can only pull the strap a short ways through the ring before sticking it to itself, which leaves enough variation to cinch them down tighter but otherwise doesn't allow much change in strap position.

The problem with this is that the Atom's add-on coaming hangs down below the cockpit rim, and below my thighs. Right where the velcro needs to be 1. pulled out to be tightened and 2. laid on top of itself to stick, the coaming pushes down on the straps. The more tension on the strap, the harder it is to move the strap at all because the velcro is being pushed into itself. It generally requires some sort of fancy sideways tug to tighten the strap-- otherwise the velcro sticks and you can't get it any tighter without starting over. Undoing the velcro to release the straps once it's fastened, wedged under the coaming, is VERY difficult. Even on dry land I end up working my way out of the boat towards the back (as discussed) some of the time because I can't get the straps to unfasten while I'm still in the boat, pushing them into the coaming.

Does anyone have ideas on this? Different straps with velcro length/spacing that let them connect over my legs instead of way out by the cockpit rim would stop this, probably. Short of that, has anyone ever tired to deal with this problem with this boat? Is there a way to cut that part of the coaming to make space for the outfitting? Lower the saddle so my legs aren't pushing the straps up against the coaming as much? That would also increase stability, but decrease knee happiness. Are new straps the only straightforward option?

markzak · Post by **markzak** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:39 pm

i know what you're talking about jrsh...i've switched my velcro straps to 2" tubular webbing, I just prefer it more :

http://www.strapworks.com/Plastic_Strap ... _p/psa.htm

Thats the 2" buckle I use and I run a continuous loop to the hip area and back to the middle on each side of the boat. Its probably not AS easy to get out because I'd have to get to the buckles to loosen them instead of pulling the velcro...but when I need to swim, I've always just come right out without having to loosen the straps.

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Outfitting for death

Outfitting for death

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