Why isn't a roll one of the first things learned

[Louie]

Longboat I got one word for you VIDEO. Some people say if it ain't on Video it didn't happen. We all await your arrival at ALF to show us a lot of things. We were hopin to see it on your Thanksgivin weekend down here.

[jrsh92]

p.s. I realiably don't havta roll...

But wait, isn't that 'cause you paddle a barge?

[Longboatin]

2o1 - certainly aint rollin a longboat in no holes - practially any surfin would put the boat on the bottom, an me floatin downstream, screamin about the beer I lost.

Though, back when I remember seein the OCA/foam block boaters on the Yough rollin their rigs regularly, and few if any had thigh straps

[ckingoc1]

2o1 - certainly aint rollin a longboat in no holes - practially any surfin would put the boat on the bottom, an me floatin downstream, screamin about the beer I lost.

Though, back when I remember seein the OCA/foam block boaters on the Yough rollin their rigs regularly, and few if any had thigh straps

Had been invented yet?

[jscottl67]

I was just asking because I've done the same thing - float out to the side - extended way out, then brace back up. I found it easier to do in a larger boat with little/no flotation (my old tandem) - the weight of the water in the boat makes it really stable.

[Louie]

don't worry when we get you down here we will cut your boat in half and you can go how with two, that you can roll.

[2opnboat1]

That statement explains it all no more from me on any of your post

[philcanoe]

Glad to see so many know how to read.... just a dam shame so many can't understand what they've read.

the thread was....

Why isn't a roll one of the first things learned

To which... I guess it's because, that's the way the ACA teaches. In this day of lawsuits, it's amazing that such an obvious omission is still missing. It could quite frankly, be grounds for a legitimate lawsuit.... And Mr Jones, "Why didn't you ever teach the lately departed...isn't this something considered standard practice." ... we the jury find the defendant guilty.

[Dooleyoc-1]

Here are my thoughts on the canoe roll:

-A roll will really help you out. It gives you the confidence to commit to moves that you might not otherwise make which allows you to improve as a boater. Also, it prevents swims which can wipe out your day by making you cold and taking up all your energy.

-The best way to get a good combat roll once you've learned in a pool/lake is playboating. This way you flip unexpectedly but you have a good safe place with recovery to roll up below.

-Psycho ran Linville, Green at 200%, Cherry Creek in Cali, Great Falls of the Potomac and a lot more without a roll. That is pretty impressive. I probably wouldn't run class V without a roll.

-Having said that, I still bail out and swim some times if i flip offside in a rocky boulder garden rapid. (I figure the swim is better than the rocks I'm hitting with my head) but rolling is usually the better thing to do 95% of the time for me. In big water a roll is always better.

[jscottl67]

Phil - wonder how many here have taken an ACA course? I'm betting that 90% (+/- 10%) didn't get their initial instruction from a certified instructor.

[jakke]

Phil - wonder how many here have taken an ACA course? I'm betting that 90% (+/- 10%) didn't get their initial instruction from a certified instructor.

What's ACA... .

I mean, I can get ACA certified, give canoe courses but totally not follow ACA principles and don't plan to update.
My neighbour did take his ACA course, is planning his update next year, and is using the "ACA handbook"

You don't know either of us, so how do you which ACA instructor you should choose?

Now, I'm totally in favor of decent instruction. And ACA has some wel thought ideas about canoeing (and some less interesting parts in it as well... ). But it's more or less structured. An ACA course is worth it.
But as with every course, finding yourself a decent instructor is the main thing. The fact that he or she is certified is not telling you everything.

[Craig Smerda]

So my observation about something that in all reality isn't actually that hard to do created this six page thread?

Here's my ONE question regarding our aspect of the sport... How many of you CAN roll and does seeing a brutal swim like this (or others you've seen) inspire you to learn?

Granted even though those of us that have a predictably good roll swim now and again the vast majority of Open Boaters I have seen cannot roll and will more than likely auto-eject than attempt to roll.

This is not a slam... just an open and forthright observation and may not be totally applicable to the footage or scenario as shown.

Having a solid and predictable roll opened many doors for me and I personally feel that our aspect of the sport lags behind due to the fact that so many OC'ers are also swimmers. Kayakers are taught to roll almost immediately... but OC'ers aren't? Why is that?

I know this has been hashed over countless times here... but rolling in most cases equates to surviving. I've swam... and I have no shame in admitting it but my roll has saved me from many ugly swims over the years and I'm greatful I can generally rely upon it.

I'm proud of my own self-rescue abilities as many of us probably are in comparison to kayakers... but as I've stated... most OC'ers not having a reliable roll has and will continue to hold us back as a collective group until we move forward.

If you do one thing this winter regardless of geographic location... get to a pool session, go to the lake and find your roll... you'll be happy you did.

Craig

Is it spring yet?

[jscottl67]

Jakke - not questioning whether getting instruction from a trained instructor is of merit (I'm certain it is). I'm just wondering how many people actually start out with an instructor led course v/s going with friends, etc. and how that affects how early on people learn to roll an OC.

Out of curiosity, how many of your clients are complete noobs to a canoe versus beginner/intermediates looking to advance?

[philcanoe]

Phil - wonder how many here have taken an ACA course? I'm betting that 90% (+/- 10%) didn't get their initial instruction from a certified instructor.

Are we talking about taking a neighbor, friend, or co-worker and showing them a few things... or we taking about going somewhere and saying teach me to become better. Because in that case, I believe most bonafide-instructors have found it advantageous to have some sort of insurance... and that usually requires some sort of certification process and not just a "I know what I'm doing". For years I taught a annual advanced canoe class, for a local canoe club. But was no longer allowed or asked (thank YOU Lord) because of this very issue. The insurance factor has required, most to be a ACA instructor.

The question was "Why isn't a roll one of the first things learned", not why didn't you (or me, or the next guy posting). As in 2-DAY, and less about what was done in the olden days... when many of us started... before airbags and saddles and whitewater canoes less than 16 feet. Not why didn't we... more, why don't we now.

To which I go back to, the ACA not including rolling in the lesson plan. If they added it to the basic Whitewater Class, it would then be picked up by everyone.

I assume now-a-days people ought to learn to roll, just as part of getting into whitewater... as soon as possible. And have taught many to do just that, both canoe and kayak... the days of discrimination over a roll is past. It's just many of us here, have good pokers faces, and talk a better game than play.

[jscottl67]

Yes, I'm referring to the friend/neighbor/coworker thing. Isn't that still where most of the growth in canoeing comes from? I know that for me, taking a couple of guys paddling has turned into several additional paddlers. Some may never do serious WW - most won't, but it grows the sport. Isn't that, even today, how most people get started?