NZMatt wrote: Sometimes it's better to just go with the roll. There are places where you just don't want to flip so you'll do everything you can to hold that brace, but most of the time you're better off to tuck and go with the roll rather than holding onto a long brace. . .
Heheh this isn't really helpful information, but the first time I ran Baby Falls on the Tellico, I got a bad nudge from the little hole just above the falls, and was tossed to my offside. I high braced for what seemed like several seconds before finally giving up and flipping over, just in time to go over the falls upside down. It was quite spectacular, and I got quite a cheer from the crowd watching when I rolled up at the bottom.
Since I couldn't have my pride that scarred, I carried back up and ran the rapid again, only to once again get the wrong nudge from the same stupid hole. The second time though I was already set up before I hit the water, and so all my friends saw was the tip of the boat come over the falls upside down, at which point I rolled up just in time to run the falls in perfect form.
As helpful info, I've seen so many beginners (of course *I* never did this) get a great roll in the pool with good form, only to continue swimming on the river. In almost every case it's because they're pulling their head out of the water first thing to get a breath, even though they had been doing perfect pool rolls with their head down. I'd argue that having your face be the last thing out of the water is more important than any other part of the process. You can set up poorly, you can have a poor hipsnap, you can screw up so many things and still get the boat up, but if you pull your face out of the water too soon, you'll never make it.
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Chris
I am one of those who just recently got the roll down. I started off this spring with a good roll in moving water, in both of my boats an Atom and a Viper. The NB Armada was the high point, hitting a couple clutch rolls in the surf. After that for the majority of the summer I could not hit succesive rolls. I had a lot of swims. I gave up paddling the Viper, I would get too extended, and it even began to hurt. From late August on I just paddled the Atom and I gave up roll practice, I did force myself to play every feature until I flipped, then make up to 3 attempts to roll succesfully. The Atom is much easier to set up in for me. This approuch worked and in just 3 weekends of paddling I was hitting rolls in the waves trailing Zoar Gap a popular local gorge. Since then I have swum once or twice, more from exhaustion than from poor technique. The things I've learned, as others have said, is that I almost never flip to my onside, the offside roll is quick and you should always follow through without the formal setup. Get the paddle to the surface and pop. On the New Boston section of the Farmington River, which is a continuous run through a boulder garden, there is a section identified as the gorge, that I have flipped on between successive features and have always made my roll with time to spare.
So for next year I intend to do the same in the Viper. I have to figure out how not to get extended though. For those of you who switch between heavy plugs and glass boats do you notice a difference? I feel like my body is always drifting over to the back deck side and I lose leverage on my pop.
I had a hard time lately with my roll, I think constantly switching boats (OC1, C1 Playboat, C1 river runner/creeker) did not really help there .
I could get upp pretty much any time with with even the lazyest and sloppiest roll in my C1 playboat, a Delirious, but had a hard time in my OC1, a Prelude, and also my new Finkenmeister.
This was partly boat related, as the Delirious is narrower and has tumblehome in the center, so once you get halfway up and over the edge, it pretty much rolls up by itself, while the Prelude and the FM have flare and are also wider in the center section, which means your technique must be much cleaner.
Two week ago I found (again) the key to rolling my other boats successfully, keep the head in the water as long as possible, and keep your upper body as low as possible until it's center is over the center of the boat. Since I pay attention to these 2 points I have not missed a roll.
martin
Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing - Henry David Thoreau
Next time you practice and are upside down, look up to toward the surface. Reach up toward the water surface with your paddle. Rotate and hip snap. Obviously open boats with flotation being an issue will be more difficult, but the idea is to get your mind away from technique. Also, I am talking to those who have been rolling already. Proper techique is fundamental. The idea of reaching and rolling has been so helpful this Fall.
Regards,
Chuck/Tennessee:D
For Jkelly-Rand and others who have a hard time rolling up and have the feeling of being extended, try this simple concept. Yank the boat UNDER you. Instead of rolling the hull flat to the water, you want to pull/roll the boat under you. Sometimes, it feels like I bunched up tight into a tuck/ball. Since you are tucking, you are also helping to keep your face in the water.
Remember what I posted earlier about putting the face in the water to prevent an actual flip. If you can beat the flip to the onside by dunking your head in the water before the hull goes upside down, you can roll back up (remember the tuck concept).
Something else to try. Fall to your onside and slap down a low brace as you dunk your head into the water and see if you can get the boat back up before you actually go upside down. Now, how far over can you fall and get the boat back up before you actually go all the way upside down? That's a nice game to practice. Now go on the water this time of year and do the same drill in this cold water ! Anyone game?
What I do that helps me keep my head down and controls the amount of "extension" is I keep my forhead on the back of my shaft hand throughout the entire roll.
If I tuck, it's there - t-grip hand in my belly (knuckles in), forehead on the back of the shaft hand.
As I sweep out, it's there - head, paddle, torso, and arms move all at once.
At the start, it's there - when the roll starts, reached up to the surface, I'm pulling up with my knee (right one for me) and driving down with my head. My arms cannot be extended beyond my head and I'm not pushing up with my arms or letting my head get "ahead" of my arms.
As I finish, it's there - as the boat rights, I plane the paddle forward and across the deck/gunwales, my forehead is there the whole time. I finish, usually, with my head over the center or off side of the boat, only then do I raise my head. What's that old tip? "Wipe your nose on both gunwales"?
Note to KNeal - I found that practicing those onside "deeeeep braces" greatly reduced my need to roll or even brace that deeply to the onside.... It's that pesky offside - like Kent Ford says, "work on a quick pry to your onside when that happens, if it doesn't work, at least you look dynamic as you flip!"
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! Anyone game? 
