Craig Smerda wrote:Do any of you still use a "back ferry"? It's not something you see done very often any more... but I can recall doing a few over the years.
Sometimes I will Back ferry between eddies to set-up for a drop or a move that I would otherwise have make a 360 turn, back ferries are easy and fun in boats over 10'
For me; boating brings me closer to to something divine, and in a open canoe I'm 8 Inches closer.
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2. eddies you don't "catch" can still slow things down - sometimes I just duck in and out, like a slalom racer, that still gives me a second to look at things or set up the next move
This I haven't done I don't fit so I just shoot by and that just adds to my speed. I had the notion in my head if I can not catch it do not try So if i just poke in for a couple second that should slow me down enough to catch the next one I would miss because I was just going to fast.
it doesn't need to be a good, classic eddy. there are always places where the water is moving slower. behind holes and rocks. the inside of turns are a given, but if your looking, you'll see it everywhere.
IMo, The best thing you can d ois practice doing s-turns. Super fun, stylin way to slow down without actaully slowing down. and it will teach edge control, angle control and reading skills.
plus, did I say it's a blast!
Simple - if you're going downstream too fast, spend more time pointed upstream.
Stop or pause by hitting more eddies and doing more ferries, front or back (yeah, sometimes I'll still use back ferrying). Ferry from eddy to eddy.
And hit your eddies like you mean it - get in there higher and stick, so that you're not getting sucked out. Touch the rock with your bow!
Also find the slower currents. Below eddies and holes and bends there may not be a full "eddy" to catch, but there will be slower current. Use these micro currents to help turn your boat and/or to slow yourself.
Honestly, if you plan to catch more eddies and do more ferries - and get into your eddies like you mean it - you'll be able to descend as slowly as you want almost whenever/wherever need to. Of couse you find some good on-the-fly surfs too!
Start watching for how many eddies and slow spots you are bypassing withou stopping or turning, there's probably lots. Don't just follow the group in front of you, look for as many as eddies as you need/want. If there is somebody in your group who tends to catch every eddy on their way down the river - try following them!
Learn to read the water well, and then look for and use slow moving sections of water to control your speed. Use the slack water between currents, down stream of obstacles, etc. I find this works very well to quickly and easily stall out for a micro moment without the need of finding and executing an eddy turn, plus b/c you are not spinning around like an eddy turn, you don't lose sight of the downstream cboater. I think it could work well when you are with a big group of boaters, b/c you said
if there is a large group(15-20 boats) of us because I have to make a change at the last second
This will by you some time. Eddy turns still have their place, this is an additional skill to have in at hand.
Craig asked
Do any of you still use a "back ferry"? It's not something you see done very often any more... but I can recall doing a few over the years.
I would suggest that the need for back ferries is less not with shorter solo ww canoes. There would still be a place for it in classic wilderness tripping.
I have been avoiding the small eddies because i could not stay in them more than a couple second before the current would pull me out and into the next rock.
my idea of a small eddie is rock about 10 ft or less of calm water then 15 ft a 2nd rock
I pull in this I have 3 ft of boat in the current hitting me both direction and if I screw up I hit the rock at the 15 ft mark.
So If I get what you are telling me hit the eddie spin and continue on rather than blowing by it. The stop and spin should cut my downward speed
J. R., It almost sounds that as you run the rapid you keep gaining speed till you are going so fast it's hard to get any eddy at all. This is where breaking down the rapid into smaller pieces helps the most. As far as slipping out of the eddy once you are in it; maybe you're not in it as much as you think and you're spinning on the eddy line, or the outflow of the eddy is sucking you downstream( larger or longer eddies would help with this). Make sure to drive the boat into the turn with forward strokes, not just duffek into it. Don't be afraid to run some drops sideways as you can avoid rocks and crap by paddling forward or back. Getting a lesson from Kaz would be helpful too. We should get together and paddle sometime, you are not too far from me.
all good advice. definitely work on a back ferry though; its not always the right move but its a good one to have in case you need it. takes a bit of practice but once you figure it out, it can be magic!
jroneil wrote:
I pull into and eddie the back end of the boat is still in the current and pulling me backward. When I can no longer hold it I will either back out and spin around and or go backwards for a little while then spin.
Thats happening because youre not carrying ENOUGH speed into the eddy and catching the edge to whip you rround quickly, with your blade still in the water for power. try taking an entry angle of about 60 degrees , then when you feel the eddy start to grab, lean in and pull on your bow rudder stroke
I've seen loads of videos where people just arent paddling. if you're not going faster than the current, then you're just a passenger. yes there are times when you need to slow down, but watch vids (of kayakers too), you ll see the drifters get into the most trouble.
Last edited by BigMike on Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I made a few suggestions about future designs to Jacques prior to this boat being released in regards to stability and a few other tidbits... and based on all the pictures I've seen it appears they were utilized... that said... I have not seen it in person or paddled on though. Maybe I'll see one this weekend...
Just so everyone know I am not flying down the river constantly. most of the rapids are not that long and are like rock gardens with only a couple inches of water going over them.
There are usually one or two paths you can take without walking.
If the river is to high everything gets washout and if it is too low you drag not only me. There are lots of places If do not hit that eddie dead on my stern will slam into a rock.
I was more curios in slowing down in the slot I back paddle but as I go faster the boat want to spin
The slot if I am lucking it is 3 feet wide lots of time it is only as wide as the boat. Everywhere else is too shallow or I have to find another slot
Sometime the slot is going over a rock
Thats happening because youre not carrying ENOUGH speed into the eddy and catching the edge to whip you rround quickly
Nope bow is hitting the rock can not get any further into the eddie.
current is pulling me out with bow hitting rock
I'm a bigger guy - 215 lbs or so, and have paddled a Raven several times.
I think it would handle big paddlers fairly well, with the caveat being that it can be a wet ride - it punches big waves and holes fairly well, but in standing waves and such takes on a lot of water. Other than that, stability is great and it tracks nicely. Very forgiving and fast when you get it moving, though not super fast initiating. Downside to me was making quick turns - it doesn't have much rocker and I found it was slow to spin when I needed it. I'd say its a beginner to intermediate boat.
I often like to drift into the top of rapids sideways (on side upstream), quickly boat scout my line, trying to find eddies to allow breaking up a longer more complex drop into segments, then spin to whatever direction needed and go.
