Esquif Nitro/ Mohawk Viper 11

Bluehole · Post by **Bluehole** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:22 pm

If you had your choice which one would you paddle and why?

Thank you

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:32 pm

Viper 11.

Comparatively, the Nitro feels like a big, deep tub; not as responsive as the Viper. Viper has better edges. But mostly becasue I don't like the way the double chines on the Nitro, Det and Blast wear out so easily.

Take this opinion lightly - I've paddled both just a little, haven't owned either.

Actually, the boat I'd like is probably a cross between bulbous Nitro and the wetter Viper 11.

Pat.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:56 pm

I personally believe the Viper11 to be one of Frankie's best designs. Not one of the better ones, but one of the top 3 - and no the Ocoee is not one (IMHO ). I use to creek in a composite Viper11 for years and found it extremely dry, fast, stable, and played well. Reluctantly leaving it aside, only after needing something even shorter. When your creeks get so narrow (and/or with long twisty slots) that a boat can no longer turn, well - you're forced go shorter. A couple times being pinned, from bridging side to side will decide that for you. I thought it surfaced quickly off drops, had nice edges, and was almost as narrow as I like (i.e. easy on the cross-strokes). And will add that I believe it to be a faster hull than the Ocoee (overall speed) - thereby making it better at attaining , surfing the hard to get to wave, and paddling on the flats.

As for the Nitro - I can and will not talk bad about a boat I've never paddled more than once or twice. However there are a couple reasons for never paddling one more than that.... (One) to me they handled like a much larger boat than they really are. And (two) I've always been skeptical or concerned about sharp edges on the bottom of a ABS canoe. As the average ABS wears out fast enough, when having no edges ... much less 4 of them. I will say the Nitro handles like a larger boat, and that's after being familiar with nearly the same length Viper11.

One bad thing, as concerning all the Vipers series.... is the amount of effort required, when putting different (wood) gunwales on those bulbous ends. It requires a large dose of creativity to get around using the stock aluminum & ABS deck-plate.

2opnboat1 · Post by **2opnboat1** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:22 pm

Phil a little ghetto steam box makes going wood so much easier on these big bulbus ends. The first one i went wood on I thought not again, then found the steam mox and now it is easy well kind of

Paddle Power · Post by **Paddle Power** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:36 pm

Nitro, better as a learning boat.
Viper, a wonderful boat, hard to beat.

BigMike · Post by **BigMike** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:32 pm

No one's mentioned paddler weight.

I'm not a beginner by any means, but I want a Nitro (or a viper 12 for that matter) as I'm around 230.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:26 pm

point taking.... I'm only 165-170lbs worth of BS.

And BTW really hate to recommend any one particular boat to someone, this guy had already narrowed down his choices. A big-boy wouldn't find it near as friendly.

mr ray · Post by **mr ray** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:18 pm

Just to add a data point to the weight topic. I have been thoroughly happy with the Viper 11 handling at my weight (195-205#, 6'2"). It feels so much more nimble and responsive than my old Probe 12 (13). Little more wet, but not by much, and it boofs really well so the wet factor can be avoided with good technique.