A new KIND of race...

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:28 am

I'm thinking of a race similar to the Iditarod. I'm talkin, 100+ miles of anything from Class I- Class V. All you have is your canoe/gear.

BYE BYE Short boats.

I envision it being very much a team race. With a good solid team of 3-4 paddlers, you could have the help you need to avoid certain risks. Portage all you want...however, everytime you do...its going to cost you time. On the flip side... your team could slow you down. So maybe you want to go solo, or full gnarls style. Only you decide whether you make it out alive.

I'm guessing there would be a lot of teams, yet plenty of brave loners. Here's another idea, maybe singles bind together for a few days to keep it safe... this would be similar to a cyclers Peladon, or whatever they call it.

What do you guys thing? Would you do something like this for a big enough cash prize? How big would the prize have to be?!?

The conservative boaters i'm guessing, will say this may be a bit crazy because of the risk/this and that. My opinion is, for something that is considered an 'extreme sport'...why not have an event like this?!?

Also.... What about location? What river/rivers could combine to form a 100+ mile race? My vote is start looking in Quebec.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:29 am

Oh yeah... you'd obviously be tenting/roughing it. Better stop in time to collect enough firewood, or your in for a miserable night.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:32 am

I forgot to mention the best part... canoe or kayak. I'd love to see how those kayaks work when you have to put a weeks+ work of gear in em... or maybe they skimp on the food and luxury camp items...and try and get their energy from fish?! who knowss...

I'm assuming that a canoeist would win the race. What do you think?

insolence · Post by **insolence** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:30 am

unfortunately I live too far from Northern Amerika to take part in these things all the time, but I do think such a race would be interesting, even without a cash price. I mean, who really races for the money, actually????? It's definetly not cash that drives the true paddlers out there, don't you think?
One day I might even fly here to do such a race since in my place these things don't exist :(

There is already a race that style: it's called trois rivières, I think (or triple crown ? http://www.classiquedecanots.com/ ) - I don't know how much whitewater the race course includes, but it's a famous, several-day-race in Quebec

I personally would go for a small team max. three people, and for light marathon race canoes (such as wenonah jensen or their solo versions, but take along duct tape) and portage the too rough sections. Not only for I'm a Cboater to the core, but a canoe can carry the gear more easily, handles faster and more easily when portaging and handling the gear and is more comfy to sit in and paddle. When spending 15+ hours in your boat, lack of comfort can limit the performance. And if you can handle these boats, they also run easy to medium whitewater

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:29 pm

phreon · Post by **phreon** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:17 pm

Sounds awesome. The idea of races built around tripping sounds like hella fun. Also, the idea of very broad classes is cool too. Does one chose a fast, light boat that has to be portaged or a Royalex tripper/river runner and work through the rapids B. Mason style?

If anything, maybe classes could somehow semi-revolve around how much money one can afford to burn on gear and how badly the paddler sucks (me, for example)? It's unlikely a goober like me would have any chance of competing against someone who can pony up for a Kevlar boat.

Maybe have slightly different routes, etc. for those who clearly don't have class V skills? Several days of a mix of frequent class II-III with short IV's one must decide to run or portage sounds great to me. Or are you envisioning a hard core, full out, Iron Man, elite paddler style run where death is a real possibility?

How much Advil would a person be allowed to carry?

Phreon

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:38 pm

insolence wrote:There is already a race that style: it's called trois rivières, I think (or triple crown ? http://www.classiquedecanots.com/ ) - I don't know how much whitewater the race course includes, but it's a famous, several-day-race in Quebec

I come from that part of Quebec and beleive me, it has nothing to do with a self-support trip nor whitewater. But it is a fun athletic event very popular for years.

The couple of rapids are all portaged and the people have very lightweight setups, even getting other people to fill their bottles and hand them energy bars 3-4 times a day at some specific points.

Anyways, a true self-support multi-days whitewater race would be a lot of fun for sure, but I would expect a K1 to win most probably, a boat like the LL Remix XP9 for instance would be very fast, handle whitewater OK and could easily carry the lightweight gears and food (buy a dehydrator + vacuum sealer and you're good to go.)

Walsh · Post by **Walsh** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:50 pm

Sounds like a great way to ruin an otherwise fun canoe trip.

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:05 pm

While this is appealing for others, it is not for me.
In my eyes multi day trips are all about the wilderness and nature experience, having time to explore the area and reflect about the experience. Turning it into a race would take this away almost entirely.
if I want to race, I go for a day to a slalom, boatercross or other similar event.

TGG!

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:05 pm

The beauty part to me is the multitude of disciplines that could be incorporated, and not just the skill of charging headlong through rapids... There's certain skills involved in heading downriver through deep slow moving water, as well as shallows. This requires water reading skills, as much does the white stuff. There's the endurance factor, that's present in something like the 260 mile Texas Water Safari, but is mostly flatwater. Or the 'Grueling' 70 mile singe day General Clinton race, which is also flat water. And maybe even portages around a dam or two. Otherwise leave the what's runnable and what's not to the boater. I'd say make it self-supported like the Iditarod, that would do more to level the playing field, and effect boat choices. This would help remove a lot of coordination headaches, for the competitor as well as the organizer. Let the boat/boater dictate the choice of materials, that's just another factor. I've never understood how it's fine to race a 10,000 dollar bike against a 300 dollar one, but when it comes to adventure races everyone gets shackled to a plastic kayak, sit-on-top, or inflatable (or use to). I was once asked to do a paddling leg, on a corporate race team. And then told everyone was forced to use to same boat, which I would have done. But much the same as saying everyone has to run in hiking boots or Nikes. The real trick would be in where to hold the race... something that had long whitewater stretches as well as flats. Maybe something like the Lochsa or Payette, with miles of both - some large, some medium, some not at all... and have roads so that it could be watched, walked off of, and progress tracked... and most importantly limit it to open canoes.

Post by **sbroam** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:09 pm

How about send everybody off with a musket, powder, some traps and flour - whoever comes back before ice up with the most pelts wins.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:47 pm

sbroam... that doesn't have much to do with canoeing now does it?

I came up with this idea(I'm prob not the first for sure)... because its so much different then your average slalom or green river race. It takes into account all the different areas that a canoeist should have good skills in.

Paddling Skills, endurance, exercising good judgement(necessary in this race)...and so forth. But more so, it GETS CANOEING BACK TO ITS ROOOTS!!!!!! When canoeing started it was all about multi-day trips and living in/off of the woods. with or without whitewater - Bill Mason style.

I'm a first year boater, started WW in May - but the number one thing I have realized is... for a sport that is supposed to be somewhat intense, and at the mercy of the elements... there sure are a lot of 'fairys" out there. Starting with buttboaters... super fairys. I'd love to see some of them camp out in the woods of canada for a week - solely by themselves. You guys ever try that? I think some underestimate the skill involved both mentally and physically.

Canoeing needs a race like this.

Post by **sbroam** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:51 pm

Uh, ever heard of the voyageurs? Folks didn't start canoeing for fun (in any kind of numbers) until the last century or so.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:56 pm

ooo - well now theres a canoe involved. yeah alright... maybe you get 5mins off the clock for every pelt taken. And if you kill a bear with your bear hands u automatticaly win.

I am glad you posted that... heres a question how many of the worlds top racers and slaloms, could compete well in a race like this - where 60% of it is canoeing and 40% of it is survival techniques.

My guess is this race would bring tons of people out of the wood work.

RodeoClown · Post by **RodeoClown** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:55 pm

I've got to say that if you're really looking to make it a "multi-day" race, you're going to have to go a lot more than like 500 miles than 100 miles. 100 miles is within the 24 hr range for a fast kayak (yes, I said kayak). Saying that a kayak would be ill-suited for this sort of this is pretty silly to me. I've done 4 days out of my creekboat pretty comfortably, and would have had room for more food if needed. For longer trips, something like a Pyranha Fusion or Liquidlogic Remix XP, or a Pyranha Speeder or PS Composites Cheta if you want even more space and speed. Jim Snyder regularly does 140 miles in the cheat drainage in 2 days often in the dead of winter, in his Cheta (which is what he designed it for). Just like you wouldn't take a Maxim for a week long trip, you'd want the right kayak- and I'd say the right kayak would be faster than the right canoe.