Last Gasp for Plastic C1 Designs?

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:06 am

[quote="martin"] And yes, that molded in knee block is SWEET

!!

I'll post some pic's once I got it all set up.quote]

Can't wait to see the final set up. Those flames are hot!

CosmikDebris · Post by **CosmikDebris** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:19 pm

Randy Dodson wrote:One night at the pool roll session, he got into a converted Bliss Stick Scud and paddled it around like he'd been single blading all his life.

Wow, he paddled a SCUD and decided C-boating was the way to go. That's insane.
Will

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:35 am

nudge

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:42 am

2010 may well be the Year of the Canoe.

L'Edge
Black Fly

and TWO Canoe Movies!

LVM "The Canoe Movie"

and another, double CD one on ALL aspects of canoeing (just heard about it today, sorry I don't have more specifics).

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:50 am

ya' never know... now... back to 2007... and pondering...

btw... the "other" movie is from Justine Curgenven... should be pretty cool...

http://www.cackletv.com/

Bruce Farrenkopf · Post by **Bruce Farrenkopf** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:13 am

Adam and Craig,

When you get more specifics I hope you'll let us know. I am definitely interested

.

SYOTR,

Bruce

2opnboat1 · Post by **2opnboat1** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:25 pm

I agree that the future of the Oc depends on the invatoin of short boats the days of the biginer in long boats is over. They want short fun boats something the doesent take a year or three to paddle. I think the C1 world has it worse than the OC side because it is just so easy to convert a boat. Used boats are cheap. I give props to any company that is will to spend the money and time on any new C project. I dont think anybody envolved in that process can account for the time spent laying in bed tring to visulize there new boat. I used to say no canoe needed to be less than 11 feet, than I jumped in the Maxim I now dread boating anyother boat. The shortness is great. So lets hope a company here and there will keep at it. And to Rodeo Clown, I wish you all the luck in the world If it wasn't people like you and a few others our sport would be a bunch of old men taleing war stories. So think you (hope you get to boat more than me).

BigMike · Post by **BigMike** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:02 pm

So if someone was going to look at a new design plastic c1, what would you look for design wise? length, beam, characteristics?

surely there isnt going to be a high demand for a dedicated freestyle boat when there are so many kayak options out there, but what about a plastic semi-all rounder for creeking and running? say, similar length to the fink, maybe a little shorter, with a displacement hull for speed but with decent edges, good volume up front etc?

jrsh92 · Post by **jrsh92** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:13 pm

I'm a big fan of the Atom... it's fast, carves incredibly well into and out of eddies, is pretty maneuverable even without an eddyline to help it out. What I'd like to see in a new design would be pretty similar to that design, but with a slightly lower volume stern for better stern squirts (well, any stern squirts for people around 150 pounds-- as it is, the stern is too high volume to squirt, but just low enough volume to be grabby, which is not good) and higher bow volume for resurfacing. Resurfacing is slow and unstable, but other than that I have few complaints about the Atom's design.

BigMike · Post by **BigMike** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:33 pm

If I can get a hold of a worn out old atom I'd be happy to design a boat based on it. I can take it to the plug stage and even make it in composite but without approaching the firm I know very well who makes plastic boats I dont have access to roto-moulding. They are unlikely to want to make a mould due to the probability of not being able to recoup costs due to low sales numbers, so I'm not entirely sure how to progress it in plastic. That said, if we (the collective we) could come up with a boat which paddles well in composite, we could always approach an oc/c manufacturer with orders and they could see if it was worthwhile to make the mould for plastic.

The issue with the atom stern though is that to make it easily squirt-able for a lighter paddler, it becomes a liability on heavy water/drops for a heavier paddler.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:05 pm

BigMike wrote:The issue with the atom stern though is that to make it easily squirt-able for a lighter paddler, it becomes a liability on heavy water/drops for a heavier paddler.

Solution;

Decide what the boat wants to be... if it wants to be a crusy river runner try to make a stern that dips reliably but not too easily;

If the boat wants to be a creekboat for hammering the Gnar, base it on something with a full volume stern and more rocker than an Atom, (a purpose built C1 using the same design priniples as the Nomad or Everest would be a nice boat.)

BigMike · Post by **BigMike** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:16 pm

You have a real knack of stating the bleedin' obvious, josh

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:21 pm

BigMike wrote:You have a real knack of stating the bleedin' obvious, josh

In that case I suppose I should address the elephant in the room that the people clamouring for a poly-C1 want the boat to be both things at once, when it just ain't going to happen.

For what it's worth, couldn't you just create two sizes of boat... starting with the one that would fit you, and then looking at the Bigger/Smaller size; hades if you only did it in composite, you could float cut it.

That's my stint as "Captain Obvious" over for today.

BigMike · Post by **BigMike** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:52 pm

Yes could do. But frankly I couldn't be arsed. Would be pretty straightforward though for a laser cutter/CAD firm to scale it down and make another plug. More $ though of course.

You're quite right to say there is no utopia, design wise. My choice would be river runner/half way to a creek boat, forget low sterns for squirts etc, there are myriad kayak options for that.

jrsh92 · Post by **jrsh92** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:00 pm

I do like the sharp edges of an Atom for general river running though...

What would people say are the fundamental differences between C-1's and kayak's design needs? A C-1 has more leverage to turn, but less speed with the single blade, so generally longer-- for more speed but less maneuverability-- fits the C-1 better. What about stability? With boats like the Zoom, it's demonstrated that an extremely wobbly boat has the potential to be paddled well as a canoe... maybe because of the greater control over the edges and lean that kneeling gains you over sitting? In a C-1 or OC-1, your hips have an incredible amount of control over what your boat's doing. However, that doesn't mean a boat without stability makes a "user friendly" C-1... On that note, how important is the boat being easy to roll? Should design be geared towards that, or towards not flipping in the first place?

I think people (including me) should seriously think about characteristics of what makes a good C-1 instead of talking about designing one "along the lines of the Atom" or "along the lines of the Nomad"