reduce, reuse, recycle...Craig Smerda wrote:Prioritize these...
...
Did anyone notice this thread was from 3 years ago yet?
Last Gasp for Plastic C1 Designs?
Moderators: kenneth, sbroam, TheKrikkitWars, Mike W., Sir Adam, KNeal, PAC, adamin
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sbroam
- CBoats.net Staff
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- Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:12 am
- Location: Lexington, SC
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-
Craig Smerda
- L'Edge Designer
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:59 am
- Location: WaUSAu Wisconsin USA North America Earth, etc.
Here's an interesting read on what I would venture to guess is the most popular plastic C1 ever sold...
"In December 1996, Joe Pulliam of Harriman, Tenn.'s Dagger Canoe Co. told me, "It's tough to justify spending money for specialized C-1 designs, and that's too bad." He then added it costs up to $70,000 to develop a boat from start to finish and, "you have to sell a fair number to make that up." Well, it seems like he was blowing some necessary corporate smoke up our collective sprayskirts. Dagger has indeed come out with a new, plastic C-1 playboat called the Atom, and the company should be applauded for its move. I tested it on a variety of Maine rivers, from the Penobscot to the Mattawamkeag, and found it to work well in a number of situations.
The first thing I noticed about it was its stability. Maybe I've been paddling too many converted K-1s, but it felt great to be back on a flat, wide C-1. These hull features are not only visually striking, but you can feel these qualities on the water. On waves, the Atom cuts back fast like the RPM (which I converted to a C-1), and like the RPM, the Atom has a short, slightly dropped stern which makes it carve like a banshee. It also has a nicely upturned bow, which keeps it from pearling. The second thing I noticed is that it's fast--especially for such a short boat. It carves easily from eddy to eddy, but it felt edgy, like a race boat, and in that regard it might not be a good choice for a beginner. It reminded me a lot of the Viper C-1 except it is shorter and has more rocker. (After I unpacked it and had it laying upside down in my office, a fellow C-1er glanced at the boat on the floor and said, "What'd they do, make a plastic Viper?")
Indeed, the middle two-thirds are rather Viperesque--but it differs in length and width (9'8" long, 26" wide). The volume is 66 gallons, six less than the RPM. It was designed by C-1 paddlers Steve Scarborough and Andy Bridge, who have proven they know how to design a fast C-1. The Atom's cockpit size and shape is exactly like Dagger's other C-1, the Cascade, so the same skirt will fit both boats. The ABS-molded pedestal and thigh-strap system is also identical to that of the Cascade. And, thank God, the Atom does sport a drain plug.
On one local river, the Kenduskeag, at a medium level, the Atom felt like a short race boat. At the end of the run, in a short, steep rodeo hole, the Atom performed great enders, as well as a handful of wave and rocket moves. On the other hand, 360s and vertical rodeo moves were more difficult because once the boat starts backsurfing, the edgy, low-rockered stern gets snagged by upstream water. In general, the Atom does not even like to side-surf. This feature may not be great for rodeo points, but it certainly takes the worry out of getting stuck in holes. I also ran the Mattawamkeag River at a whomping 10,500 cfs, a run with big waves, whirlpool-swirling eddy lines, massive exploding peaks and wave trains that end up in the largest haystacks I've ever seen. In the combat zone, the Atom was surprisingly stable. Again, she's edgy so I chose to keep my paddle in the water, and when I paddled hard the Atom responded like a rocket ship-- fast and powerful. The Mattawamkeag at this level can be a scary run and there were plenty of times when I thought I was going over, but with aggressive strokes, the Atom remained upright throughout the day, a testament to its solid secondary stability. In the haystacks, the Atom shot like an arrow, sometimes right off the top of waves, sometimes piercing through them. It was here that one of my kayaking friends called it the "Atom Smasher." At times, the Atom felt like a squirt cruiser. During stern squirts on strong eddy lines, it hung, bobbing up and down controllably on its wide midsection. On large surf waves, hand-only cutbacks were easy, and even on swirly eddy lines, the kind with disappearing and reappearing whirlpools, the Atom pivoted into and out of the current like a champ.
Atom Specs
Length: 9'6"
Width: 26"
Weight: 43 lbs.
Volume: 66 gal.
Material: Polyethylene
Paddler Weight: 115-215 lbs.
MSRP: $889
Info.: (423) 882-0404
The last part of my testing was on the Dryway of the Penobscot's Ripogenus Gorge. This seldom-run, technical overflow from the dam isn't the kind of river the Atom was designed for--it's steep, busy, and at this level, simply full of too much water (not to mention that the Dryway dumps into the Rip Gorge which makes that part of the run a very healthy 5,600 cfs). Because I was scared to death and paddling aggressively, I never had to roll--a testament to the fact that the Atom responds well to in-your-face, aggressive paddle strokes, especially when the going gets tough. On numerous occasions the Atom launched itself off the tops of haystacks, clearing the surface of the water entirely. My friend said it looked great. I was terrified, but relieved that the Atom and I had survived and had done so in style. The Atom may not be the best beginner boat on the market, but it's perfect for seasoned C-1ers who have owned and loved glass race boats and have always wished for a shorter, more rockered version in plastic. It is a boat for the C-1er who likes an effective edge and knows how to use it.
--John Frachella"
http://www.paddlermagazine.com/issues/1 ... agger.html
"In December 1996, Joe Pulliam of Harriman, Tenn.'s Dagger Canoe Co. told me, "It's tough to justify spending money for specialized C-1 designs, and that's too bad." He then added it costs up to $70,000 to develop a boat from start to finish and, "you have to sell a fair number to make that up." Well, it seems like he was blowing some necessary corporate smoke up our collective sprayskirts. Dagger has indeed come out with a new, plastic C-1 playboat called the Atom, and the company should be applauded for its move. I tested it on a variety of Maine rivers, from the Penobscot to the Mattawamkeag, and found it to work well in a number of situations.
The first thing I noticed about it was its stability. Maybe I've been paddling too many converted K-1s, but it felt great to be back on a flat, wide C-1. These hull features are not only visually striking, but you can feel these qualities on the water. On waves, the Atom cuts back fast like the RPM (which I converted to a C-1), and like the RPM, the Atom has a short, slightly dropped stern which makes it carve like a banshee. It also has a nicely upturned bow, which keeps it from pearling. The second thing I noticed is that it's fast--especially for such a short boat. It carves easily from eddy to eddy, but it felt edgy, like a race boat, and in that regard it might not be a good choice for a beginner. It reminded me a lot of the Viper C-1 except it is shorter and has more rocker. (After I unpacked it and had it laying upside down in my office, a fellow C-1er glanced at the boat on the floor and said, "What'd they do, make a plastic Viper?")
Indeed, the middle two-thirds are rather Viperesque--but it differs in length and width (9'8" long, 26" wide). The volume is 66 gallons, six less than the RPM. It was designed by C-1 paddlers Steve Scarborough and Andy Bridge, who have proven they know how to design a fast C-1. The Atom's cockpit size and shape is exactly like Dagger's other C-1, the Cascade, so the same skirt will fit both boats. The ABS-molded pedestal and thigh-strap system is also identical to that of the Cascade. And, thank God, the Atom does sport a drain plug.
On one local river, the Kenduskeag, at a medium level, the Atom felt like a short race boat. At the end of the run, in a short, steep rodeo hole, the Atom performed great enders, as well as a handful of wave and rocket moves. On the other hand, 360s and vertical rodeo moves were more difficult because once the boat starts backsurfing, the edgy, low-rockered stern gets snagged by upstream water. In general, the Atom does not even like to side-surf. This feature may not be great for rodeo points, but it certainly takes the worry out of getting stuck in holes. I also ran the Mattawamkeag River at a whomping 10,500 cfs, a run with big waves, whirlpool-swirling eddy lines, massive exploding peaks and wave trains that end up in the largest haystacks I've ever seen. In the combat zone, the Atom was surprisingly stable. Again, she's edgy so I chose to keep my paddle in the water, and when I paddled hard the Atom responded like a rocket ship-- fast and powerful. The Mattawamkeag at this level can be a scary run and there were plenty of times when I thought I was going over, but with aggressive strokes, the Atom remained upright throughout the day, a testament to its solid secondary stability. In the haystacks, the Atom shot like an arrow, sometimes right off the top of waves, sometimes piercing through them. It was here that one of my kayaking friends called it the "Atom Smasher." At times, the Atom felt like a squirt cruiser. During stern squirts on strong eddy lines, it hung, bobbing up and down controllably on its wide midsection. On large surf waves, hand-only cutbacks were easy, and even on swirly eddy lines, the kind with disappearing and reappearing whirlpools, the Atom pivoted into and out of the current like a champ.
Atom Specs
Length: 9'6"
Width: 26"
Weight: 43 lbs.
Volume: 66 gal.
Material: Polyethylene
Paddler Weight: 115-215 lbs.
MSRP: $889
Info.: (423) 882-0404
The last part of my testing was on the Dryway of the Penobscot's Ripogenus Gorge. This seldom-run, technical overflow from the dam isn't the kind of river the Atom was designed for--it's steep, busy, and at this level, simply full of too much water (not to mention that the Dryway dumps into the Rip Gorge which makes that part of the run a very healthy 5,600 cfs). Because I was scared to death and paddling aggressively, I never had to roll--a testament to the fact that the Atom responds well to in-your-face, aggressive paddle strokes, especially when the going gets tough. On numerous occasions the Atom launched itself off the tops of haystacks, clearing the surface of the water entirely. My friend said it looked great. I was terrified, but relieved that the Atom and I had survived and had done so in style. The Atom may not be the best beginner boat on the market, but it's perfect for seasoned C-1ers who have owned and loved glass race boats and have always wished for a shorter, more rockered version in plastic. It is a boat for the C-1er who likes an effective edge and knows how to use it.
--John Frachella"
http://www.paddlermagazine.com/issues/1 ... agger.html
Esquif Canoes Paddler-Designer-Shape Shifter
Firstly I Think I am a crap Cboater nad I think metric, but You asked
Length
1. 6-7ft
2. 7-8ft
3. 8-9ft
4. 9-10ft
5. 10ft. or longer
ANything between 230 and 300 cm
Width
1. 26-27"
2. 28-29"
3. 29" or wider
do not care, As long as stability is good.
Paddler Capacity
1. 100-150lbs
2. 150-200lbs
3. 200lbs or more
2
I would use a C1 primarily for...
1. "river running"
2. "playing"
3. "creeking"
1
I spend most of my time on...
1. class II-III rivers
2. class III-IV rivers
I wish 2 but 1 is more likely.
I mostly paddle...
1. low volume water
2. high volume water
?
What's more important to you?
1. higher volume (resurfacing)
2. lower volume (more slicy)
3. speed
What does speed have to do with volume? I know slalom boats have grown the last year. I think that a boat that has a good accelerate quick is fine. I like to keep high But that can be obtained without have lots of volume.
I would prefer a C1 to be...
1. more comfortable
2. more versatile
3. not a kayak
comfy is good.
I would like a *new* C1 design to look pretty much like everything that's already been done before.
1. Yes
2. No
3. I don't care as long as it works
3
It would be nice to have a good general purpose boat.
Length
1. 6-7ft
2. 7-8ft
3. 8-9ft
4. 9-10ft
5. 10ft. or longer
ANything between 230 and 300 cm
Width
1. 26-27"
2. 28-29"
3. 29" or wider
do not care, As long as stability is good.
Paddler Capacity
1. 100-150lbs
2. 150-200lbs
3. 200lbs or more
2
I would use a C1 primarily for...
1. "river running"
2. "playing"
3. "creeking"
1
I spend most of my time on...
1. class II-III rivers
2. class III-IV rivers
I wish 2 but 1 is more likely.
I mostly paddle...
1. low volume water
2. high volume water
?
What's more important to you?
1. higher volume (resurfacing)
2. lower volume (more slicy)
3. speed
What does speed have to do with volume? I know slalom boats have grown the last year. I think that a boat that has a good accelerate quick is fine. I like to keep high But that can be obtained without have lots of volume.
I would prefer a C1 to be...
1. more comfortable
2. more versatile
3. not a kayak
comfy is good.
I would like a *new* C1 design to look pretty much like everything that's already been done before.
1. Yes
2. No
3. I don't care as long as it works
3
It would be nice to have a good general purpose boat.
Propper Writing in English, how do you do that, with dyslexia, bad hand eye coordination, ect. and in a foreign language
sorry fore all the mistakes.
sorry fore all the mistakes.
-
Mike Gardner
- Pain Boater
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:24 pm
- Location: Oklahoma
-
Bruce Farrenkopf
- CBoats Addict
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 3:35 am
- Location: Reno, NV
There are lot of good designs in kajaks, everybody can find what he is looking for there. So for a new specific C1 one would not have to invent the wheel again. Some kind of riverrunner, with more or less sharp rails and a flat bottom would attract a lot of people for shure.
But whats really lacking would be a boat with a well designed pedestal, a stiff and light saddle. A boat with an outfitting that could be fitted for your personal needs as fast like a kajak and that fitting would be easy to open up from outside.
Imagine a C1 like that - fit it for 5 minutes or so, than sit in and off you go!
But whats really lacking would be a boat with a well designed pedestal, a stiff and light saddle. A boat with an outfitting that could be fitted for your personal needs as fast like a kajak and that fitting would be easy to open up from outside.
Imagine a C1 like that - fit it for 5 minutes or so, than sit in and off you go!
imagine
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Craig Smerda
- L'Edge Designer
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:59 am
- Location: WaUSAu Wisconsin USA North America Earth, etc.
-
Paddle Power
- C Maven
- Posts: 1041
- Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:18 am
- Location: Manitoba, Canada
- Contact:
Oh yeah, some serious C1 ww paddling!
Brian
http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
Bruce Farrenkopf
- CBoats Addict
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 3:35 am
- Location: Reno, NV
Length
1. 6-7ft
2. 7-8ft
3. 8-9ft
4. 9-10ft
5. 10ft. or longer
Length: 8-9 ft
Width
1. 26-27"
2. 28-29"
3. 29" or wider
Width: 27" would be fine
Paddler Capacity
1. 100-150lbs
2. 150-200lbs
3. 200lbs or more
Paddler Capacity: 150 - 200 lbs.
I would use a C1 primarily for...
1. "river running"
2. "playing"
3. "creeking"
Split between River Running and Creeking
I spend most of my time on...
1. class II-III rivers
2. class III-IV rivers
Class III-IV rivers
I mostly paddle...
1. low volume water
2. high volume water
Low Volume (Under 1500 cfs)
What's more important to you?
1. higher volume (resurfacing)
2. lower volume (more slicy)
3. speed
Higher volume
I would prefer a C1 to be...
1. more comfortable
2. more versatile
3. not a kayak
Not a Kayak. Note: I don't mind converting a kayak if it makes a good C1, however I do understand that a boat competently designed to be a C1 will perform better than a boat designed to be a kayak
.
I would like a *new* C1 design to look pretty much like everything that's already been done before.
1. Yes
2. No
3. I don't care as long as it works
I don't care as long as it works well.
SYOTR,
Bruce
1. 6-7ft
2. 7-8ft
3. 8-9ft
4. 9-10ft
5. 10ft. or longer
Length: 8-9 ft
Width
1. 26-27"
2. 28-29"
3. 29" or wider
Width: 27" would be fine
Paddler Capacity
1. 100-150lbs
2. 150-200lbs
3. 200lbs or more
Paddler Capacity: 150 - 200 lbs.
I would use a C1 primarily for...
1. "river running"
2. "playing"
3. "creeking"
Split between River Running and Creeking
I spend most of my time on...
1. class II-III rivers
2. class III-IV rivers
Class III-IV rivers
I mostly paddle...
1. low volume water
2. high volume water
Low Volume (Under 1500 cfs)
What's more important to you?
1. higher volume (resurfacing)
2. lower volume (more slicy)
3. speed
Higher volume
I would prefer a C1 to be...
1. more comfortable
2. more versatile
3. not a kayak
Not a Kayak. Note: I don't mind converting a kayak if it makes a good C1, however I do understand that a boat competently designed to be a C1 will perform better than a boat designed to be a kayak
.I would like a *new* C1 design to look pretty much like everything that's already been done before.
1. Yes
2. No
3. I don't care as long as it works
I don't care as long as it works well.
SYOTR,
Bruce