Surf C1???

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:19 am

Came across the plans for a Surf kayak that should be relatively easy and cheap to build. Being a single blader I would obviously modify it into a C1. Has anyone ever tried this?
I had talked about trying something like that a while ago with Ed from Murky Waters, and he thought that this might work.
The main complication, as far as I can think of the top of my head, would be the crossbow stern rudder, would probably look similar to a pretzel...

TGG!

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:12 am

Surf Yak? Looks like it would be easy enough to modify. Just figure how far forward you need to be to trim it like you want. As far as the offside stern rudder, you'd drive it just like a whitewater boat. How often to you use an offside stern rudder? An onside stern draw w/ a pile of offside tilt usually gets the job done.

SkeeterGuy86 · Post by **SkeeterGuy86** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:23 am

would be an interesting trip

... wouldnt mind trying ocean surfin in a C1

wouldnt know where to start as far as building/buying a c1 designed for that tho

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:44 am

Mike W. wrote:Surf Yak? Looks like it would be easy enough to modify. Just figure how far forward you need to be to trim it like you want. As far as the offside stern rudder, you'd drive it just like a whitewater boat. How often to you use an offside stern rudder? An onside stern draw w/ a pile of offside tilt usually gets the job done.

I looked a fair bit at surf kayak footage, and I tend to think that the onside stern draw would not really work there. those guys tilt their boats HARD when carving for a bottom turn or a cutback, and I do not think that one could even reach the water when doing a turn to one's offside. I started doing offside rudders once in a while when surfing bigger waves, it's definitely more effective than an onside stern draw. They are/feel somewhat scary, tied up like a pretzel...

I hope to get to Tofino sometime this spring too try ocean surfing in the Sith.
As far as the Surf kayaks are concerned, I was interested how they paddle stability and predictability wise. I mean, they have a similar crossection as the Groove, but are quite a bit narrowe and have scary hard looking edges.

TGG!

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:29 am

The kayaks are like paddling a beachball that's between your knees, and the edges are very unforgiving.

I looked at converting a surf boat, but couldn't justify it.

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:58 pm

It's called 'The Groove' by Massive

I know, not a true surf boat... but the bow is very similar, and it is an absolute blast on ocean waves!

Of course, a bit more length, and a different stern would be needed for a more traditional surf boat.

Mission · Post by **Mission** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:08 pm

David Bainbridge in the UK paddles a Mega surf boat of some description as C1 so It has been done successfully before.

There is also an Irish C1 slalom paddler (Mark Coleman) who competes in surf competitions paddling a boat of his own making.
Basically he chopped up a Slalom boat and made rails for it. He certainly seems to do pretty well in it anyway.

I used to mess about in my freestyle boat ocean surfing,I found it was easiest just to use your hand and the T-grip for steering offsided..

kaz · Post by **kaz** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:09 pm

Got one in the works. That's all I'm saying for now.
JKaz

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:56 pm

I've seen a video a while back of someone doing an offside stern rudder by using the backface of the blade. That way your wrist isn't twisted, and you can reach further back and even lean somehow on your upperarm... Certainly debatable technique on the river but on a sea wave move maybe could make more sense...

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:37 pm

Adam, I have a groove, (not a nice composite one, but one of the Riot plastic prototypes).
It is somewhat similar to ocean surf kayaks, but the rocker template is significantly different from an surf kayak.
Surf kayaks have a generous amount of bow rocker and virtually no stern rocker. The bow rocker keeps the nose nice and high and prevents it from pearling, while the low stern rocker gives them a lot of speed while on plane.
The Groove however, having not been designed specifically for ocean surfing, has very little bow rocker, in fact keeping it from pearling is always a challenge for me when on bigger waves, and , due to it's stern rocker and concavity, may lack a bit of speed on plane.
It's width may be a bit of a hindrance for fast edge to edge transfer when carving on a bigger ocean wave.
The groove was, after all, not designed as an ocean surf boat, but as a rodeo boat.
But I'll have to take it to the beach one day and try it out.
I am sutre the beatdowns will be quite something

...

TGG!

Todhunter · Post by **Todhunter** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:43 pm

TGG - care to explain to a newb what pearling is? I'm afraid I'll get something totally inappropriate for work if I google it...

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:37 pm

kaz wrote:Got one in the works. That's all I'm saying for now.
JKaz

SWEET!

I've surfed my Viper at the beach & really like it. I know a guy who converted a Necky Rip to paddle whitewater. It's scary on flatwater, but amazing on a wave & it will surf anything. It's only 23" wide so it's got decent speed for plastic. He surfs a board too, so the Rip has never seen the ocean, but I think it would be a decent choice.

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:49 pm

Todhunter wrote:TGG - care to explain to a newb what pearling is? I'm afraid I'll get something totally inappropriate for work if I google it...

The google search isnt as bad as you might think (I couldnt resist).

I belive pearling is when the Bow of your boat drops down beneath the water and could be the begining of an Ender on a river wave but gets you a beat down on ocean surf.

I think.

Someone should come along and call me stupid if Im wrong.

golder · Post by **golder** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:05 am

you are correct about pearling.

to add a bit...
i've heard it more often in an ocean surfing (board surfing concept), meaning when the nose of the board catches the water. it usually aint good when it happens on a surf board --presumably no better in a surf boat either--as you end up going a$$ over tea kettle....a good way to end your ride.

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:16 am

The stern is wrong, and the bow does need a little more rocker, but it is much better in the composite than plastic version. Paddling both back to back I've always been amazed at how different they are, considering they were to be a version of the same boat!

For you non-ocean surfers, pearling can hurt. A lot. Not so much in, say, a Groove, but in a 12' long Viper, when that nose goes down and you don't shoot down the wave and you bury it in the water... not bad... when that bow hits the sand, and the wave flips you over... ouch.

I've played around a bit off the coast of Maine. Not huge water, but ok and a lot of fun. I always had problems getting out through the breakers. Lots of work.