Jefe or Jefe Grande ?

[oopsiflipped]

well i guess c1era in alabama have to paddle something....

[Craig Smerda]

the solo is a good conversion actually I like the jefe more, but I have some bias. most true modern creekers aren't "fast" some may be a bit faster but its all relative

A very wise man once told me "For creeking you usually just need to be able to go a little faster than the water you are in"

[golder]

for what its worth, Fluid had a c1er on their team of sponsored boaters. he seemed to be ripping it up in the solo, at least the pictures look good. i've got no idea if he had a hand in its design, but still, they are sponsoring a c-boater, which is more than a lot of yak companies can say....

ive taken a number of good long looks at that boat, something boat it does catch my eye for a conversion. that said, i've got next to no experience w/ decked boats, so its all just window shopping at this point.

[Craig Smerda]

for what its worth, Fluid had a c1er on their team of sponsored boaters. he seemed to be ripping it up in the solo, at least the pictures look good. i've got no idea if he had a hand in its design, but still, they are sponsoring a c-boater, which is more than a lot of yak companies can say....

ive taken a number of good long looks at that boat, something boat it does catch my eye for a conversion. that said, i've got next to no experience w/ decked boats, so its all just window shopping at this point.

That'd be Joe Stumpfel that had a hand in the design and testing as far as I know... he's a darn good C1'er. There's also a clip of Seth Chappelle... http://www.vimeo.com/3385144

[sbroam]

I ain't running the gnar and I've only been in the Remix a handful of times so far, but my impression is that it is very fast, stable, and forgiving - but that stern *might* get you in trouble. I've felt it get grabbed a couple of times (powered through) and when surfing have been able to cut back and it felt like I'd sliced the stern through (like in my playboat). I could see being rear endered in it... But... there is lot's of volume up front...

[Larry Horne]

no way it won't kick your butt it is super forgiving really especially if you are paddling a burn.

what grade water are you using it in?
I"ve only heard that it'll kick your butt from some kayakers who are running hard class V. But A lot of yakers out here love it.. LOVE it.
I have no issues at all with the burn.

WRT the solo, my friend paddles one and I do kind-of like the looks of it, but not enough to go there. I paddled his but the outfitting was way too loose at the time, so i couldn't get a feel for it.

[xmas0c1c1k1]

I was running good solid class 4 in it green narrows light, all southeast creeks so maybe not as much volume as the stuff in cali. I mean any river can kick your butt if you get to lazy no matter what boat you are in. The displacement hull large rocker and huge volume make it quite forgiving
Craig thank you for that quote about speed thats kind of always been my view on boats and creeking usually its more about how many strokes does it take to get going faster than the water

[Larry Horne]

I mean any river can kick your butt if you get to lazy no matter what boat you are in.

excellent point. kayakers can be quite lazy!

[TheKrikkitWars]

Personally I'd say the Jefe can kick your butt quite easily as a C1 If you're not giving it everything you've got, it's just a little bit too unstable for my liking, though I am keeping mine handy for when I've got good enough to paddle it as well as it needs to be paddled.

[oopsiflipped]

the stern in remix is very predictable. at least in 79. one of the best things about that boat is how when the stern submerges it pushes out of hydraulic very predictably. the second day i paddled it was on cheoah with my seat still about 4" too far back. got stern squirted alot, but always came through.

[sbroam]

Thanks - that's good to know and makes me feel better about the Remix!

[Larry Horne]

I got to paddle the jefe grande on a familiar class iv medium volume river yesterday. I loved it. and hated it.
I was expecting it to feel a little rolly, but it didn't feel that way for any more than two minutes. I was really suprised at how forgiving that hull is. Especially on the boofs where you launch the side of a rock on edge and need to transition back to flat for the landing... it was so easy to bring that round hull back under me. The landings in squirrely water were super easy... the lack of grabbyness more than made up for any(if any) lack of primary stability, so landing a little "off" in boily water was not a problem..pretty brainless. and speaking of brainless..the nose on that thing!...i've never seen anything so buoyant. So the hole punching and boofs are excellent.
What i really did not like was how it had a mind of it's own when it came to staying on track. I really got blown off line a few times.
I guess it requires a different paddling technique from a boat that tracks, and i'll take it out again to see if i can get it figured out, not sure i want to change my paddling style though. I really like how the burn will go when and where i want it to...



...that 2010 large burn is looking REALLY good ...

[marclamenace]

What i really did not like was how it had a mind of it's own when it came to staying on track. I really got blown off line a few times.

Yeap. Pretty radical transition from super edgy to paddling an eggshell right?

I saw you don't like the idea but again, get to try a Remix. Best of both worlds to me. The edges won't catch funny water much, but you can still use them to stay on track pretty good. Stability is awesome and speed... Oh yeah.

Why was it a no go for you again?

[xmas0c1c1k1]

what type of technique do you think you need to paddle the grande vs the burn? I understand that the burn tracks and carves better, but I don't understand what technique changes would be required.

Just wondering cause I love my grande and I guess I don't know what technique exactly I use to make it a great boat for me. I paddle up front alot but I think you need to do that whenever you are creeking, but the boat does fine when i do rudder. Many times I will rudder up onto a rock for offside boofs and it does fine.

My favorite move in this boat is a sweep boof type stroke to get on top of a hole. just have some angle and sweep on top of any hole works great in this boat.

I have limited experience in a burn so can't compare that well. The remix I liked, but i don't think I would like it for tight technical creeks it was great on bigger water though. I had a nomad which I liked but the grande is better in my mind, but pretty similar style boats. Absolutely hated the critical mass the edges were really funky to me and would always grab at strange times.

[Larry Horne]

what type of technique do you think you need to paddle the grande vs the burn? I understand that the burn tracks and carves better, but I don't understand what technique changes would be required .

I don't think it's bad, it's just very different from what i've been paddling forever.
probably the only real change needed would be in my mindset. I don't think I could make it handle any differently, but perhaps i could get used to how it behaves..