Offside side surf technique...

[FullGnarlzOC]

It seems that most people prefer offside high brace... which is good, because mine is becoming pretty reliable. By switching from an XL13 to a Detonator a few weeks ago, surfing has become alot different, in feel and in technique.

With the XL13, the size and the soft chines allowed the boat to be alot more forgiving in terms of catching edge and getting window shaded. I've only surfed a few times(in decent holes that is) with the Detonator, and the boat is super reactive. It spins without me even trying to really. The next time I get out there, I am definitely doing to practice surfing without my paddle in the water as much as I can and Try this J-lean...which from what I gathered, sounds like its predominately done with your knees and hips. Once I get that down...I should be able to spin in control and somewhat easily.

I'm surprised no one here uses an upstream low brace. A fellow club paddler, phil ohlin - introduced the technique to me, and said he was taught this at the Matawaska paddling school. The following is a video of phin, demonstrating how the low brace can be effective. He makes it look kind of easy, so that's why I was wondering if this is the best technique for offside surfing. I also noticed, that he seems to be J-leaning fairly well...which probably allows him to use that low brace just for a lil bit of extra stability.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/solo_konoe ... 850197990/

It seems like...once I figure out how to J-lean well... it won't really matter what brace I do. Although, I'll probably stick with a offside high brace, as I'd have more control to spin that way.

[yarnellboat]

Yeah, I think the paddle pretty much needs to be on the downstream side, I don't really see what use it would be having in the upstream current - the big advantage of going offside to the downstream side is also the possibility of getting in the forward or back strokes to get an end out of the hole! In theory anyway.

Pat.

[FullGnarlzOC]

Here is a video of my first surf in my new boat. Going from a 15.5ft ME to a XL13 to a Detonator....I noticed a WORLD of difference in all aspects of paddling. In particular, while surfing... the boat seemed to pretty much want to spin immediately with any little adjustment I made.

It's not the best surf in the world, but I feel it wasn't too bad for the first surf in that new boat; not to mention its not like i have years of experience under my belt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRSUT_iB5HQ

Dooley mentioned that I should 'lead with my head' when im going for spins. "Be sure not to lean up stream when you are going for 360's. Also, lead with your head and the boat will come around..."

I'm not sure exactly what he means by 'lead with my head'. If anyone can clarify, i'd greatly appreciate it. Also feel free to critique the surf. Every bit of advice helps, and I wouldnt be where i'm at right now without the helpful advice of my open boat comrades.

This last video is a video of me trying to roll...I think the mistake is obvious here, i lifted my body up way to fast. Didn't do the 'fainting goat'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkPEcjts ... re=related

[philcanoe]

...I'm surprised no one here uses an upstream low brace. A fellow club paddler, phil ohlin - introduced the technique to me, and said he was taught this at the Matawaska paddling school...

• not everyone chose to respond...

I also teach and use the upstream side myself (just not exclusively - or primarily)

Like most everything with boating, there is no one and only way to do something. Circumstance determines what method, how I entered, and what I'm doing next. In transition the upstream can be really good, and sometimes makes your next move potentially easier. This can be performed as a upstream rudder/pry off a gunwale (one of the reasons I don't like play-boating in a Taureau). Or performed as the upstream low brace you described. AS PREVIOUSLY STATED with any stroke to the side (on or offside) really square the shoulders (IE. rotate-turn-twist-face the paddle with both shoulders).

In fact sometimes it's better to hold a desired angle from the upstream side(way-better), as it's real easy to get sucked in sideways to a feature (hole-wave-both) while on the downstream side. Sometimes it's a matter of which is going to require less effort.

. . . I'm not sure exactly what he means by 'lead with my head'. If anyone can clarify, i'd greatly appreciate it. . .

was mentioned here in pics: http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php? ... 35&start=7 and elaborated by others in later discussions and a video.

[sbroam]

The upstream pry/rudder has worked for me though the first couple of times I was sure i'd gotten away with something. Blade angle, avoiding a "diving" attitude is key. Usually it turns into a reverse sweep straightening me back into a bow surk or back stroke working me ot the end. Works better in a wave/hole than something steep/pour overish (at least for me).

[KNeal]

You just gotta take the time to sit in a relatively safe hole on your offside and get used to it. Time in the hole makes the difference. The most important thing is relying on your balance and not so much on your brace. I'll drop in a hole on my offside and cock the angle of the boat so the upstream edge just clears the surface and keep my torso upright so my head is still over the boat (the above-mentioned j-lean and staying in-the-box references). I'll use only enough of an offside brace to maintain my balance but learned long ago that I do not put weight on that brace (unhappy shoulders keep reminding me ). Bob P., I love that pic of you side surfing. Great image to show how its done, minus the styling points for paddle useage.

You can get away with upstream bracing, but you GOTTA feather that blade or yer gonna window shade before you say "SHI...". The time you want to upstream brace is when you're ready to stern pry and swing the bow around for an upstream surf or switch to an onside surf (or flat spin ).

Always happy to weigh in with my opinions.

KNeal

[FullGnarlzOC]

Thanks alot guys. As always... extremely helpful advice... now all I have to do is apply it on the river and put the time in.

[yarnellboat]

After watching the video of your friend, I'll add this...

To know what stroke somebody should be using, you'd have to be able to read their mind - if he wanted to fight the side-surf, drop off the trough a bit, and spin to his on-side, sure, stay on the on-side rudder/brace; but if wanted to spin to his right, he should go to the offside.

A lot has to do with the angle of the boat and its placement on the wave - there comes a "point of no return" when you're so sideways that you should go offside, i.e., with his onside/upstream strokes, it's debatable whether he was front surfing or in a side surf.

And, if he were to be stuck in a hole as oppose to playing with spins where he's comfortable, probably downstream side for a real brace.

Pat.

[FullGnarlzOC]

That's what i asked him last night..."if you got thrown in a sticky hole, on your off side, in a combat situation, what do you instincts tell you that you would do?"

and he said same thing as you said....every situation is different

After all....looks like I'm going to have to learn the low brace anyways, just so it's in my back of tricks.

[Larry Horne]

Here's the thing. A brace is just a brace. It should just be a quick thing to keep you from falling over if you catch an edge. If you're just hanging on an offside brace or leaning upstream on a low brace like your buddy ( ), then you aren't surfing OR getting yourself out of the hole... you're just flotsam at the mercy of the hole is all.
You should work on balance and edge control in a hole...not bracing.
Watch the c-playboaters and you will see they use the paddle to move the boat, and balance and edge control to stay upright.
In a playboat you can even get the boat to spin 360s just by gentle weight transfer..no paddle
That mellow ledge in the video looks like a great place to get your balance and edges figured out. ... go in there and NOT use your paddle

[eddyhops]

I'm not sure exactly what he means by 'lead with my head'. If anyone can clarify, i'd greatly appreciate it.

Basically... look/reach where you want to go. This also crosses over to many other solo sports.

This simple thing will not only improve your playboating but your boating in general.

[Bill M]

The post about feathering the paddle in an upstream low brace is important. the edge of the blade should be angled slightly up so it will ride on the current. Angling it down is an instant windowshade. The low brace is a tool to know about and so give you options in most situations.
Bill

[Todhunter]

Angling it down is an instant windowshade.

That's all I was thinking could happen when I first read this thread - put the paddle in on the upstream side and you're going under. But after watching the video, I see that the blade is feathered - it still looks weird though.

In my minimal hole-riding experience, I use the offside high brace when my onside is upstream.

[FullGnarlzOC]

"Basically... look/reach where you want to go. This also crosses over to many other solo sports."

nice. probably easiest way to explain it and the best way to think about it on the water when ur learning.

Also with feathering the blade. I did learn this the hard way heh. Something that i really need to pay attention to next time, as well as J-lean.

Tod - after watchin the video, you can definitely see how I was thinking that, that might be the way to do it. He makes it look rather easy. I can tell that it will be a good tool to have. Thrown in as you surf, it looks cool too. Looks like you might really know what you're doing if you can do both braces with ease.

[Lengthy]

Or you could do what a couple of us do and just switch. Switching doesn't take any longer than crossing and it gives you two on sides. It really is the best way but everyone will tell you it's wrong.