nice strokeage?

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Sat May 15, 2010 1:50 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G4VUFZYFsg

How's the strokeage in this video? I'm thinking need shorter, choppier, explosive strokes. I'd like to say that i wasnt doing this because of low flow...but I think the long strokes are habit, as I came from two bigger boats XL13 and ME.

am i right? do these strokes need to be shorter?

craig · Post by **craig** » Sat May 15, 2010 2:09 am

Both forward and cross forward look like they'd work better if they were shorter and initiated more up towards the bow. I paddle the same boat and I find it behaves best using "front wheel drive", plant your blade in the water as far up front as you can, in the direction you want to go, then pull the boat towards the paddle, using your lower body to carve a turn with the hull/edges.

ncdavid · Post by **ncdavid** » Sat May 15, 2010 2:10 am

I like the "git some" at the end.

You know those cross strokes that you see some boaters make where they hang on to way too long and get all goofy-butt-arms-tied-up-paddle-can't-help-'em? Some of your cross strokes in the video almost reach that point. Keep 'em shorter. You'd also benefit from keeping your forward stroke and your cross strokes more vertical.

Git some.

dafriend · Post by **dafriend** » Sat May 15, 2010 4:35 am

Get your blade fully in the water. Stick it all the way in before beginning the power phase of the stroke. You do this some of the time but often you're making a lot of noise and splash. That's not efficient.

Like David said, get vertical.

Post by **sbroam** » Sat May 15, 2010 10:10 am

For accelerating - short, quick, in front of your knees. When you are at speed and gliding, you can let them get a little longer.

To the verticality comments, maybe your paddle is too long...

ncdavid · Post by **ncdavid** » Sat May 15, 2010 11:22 am

Most importantly, you put the boat where you wanted to put it. On similar river moves, I like to challenge myself to make the move in fewer and fewer strokes. To eliminate strokes, you'll have to focus on efficiency, timing, catch, power phase, recovery, balance, lean, etc.
We have an odd sport. It seems like the forward stroke should be easy. It is the first stroke we learn, the one we use most often, and it is still the stroke that most of us, myself definitely included, can always improve.

agmazzuckelli · Post by **agmazzuckelli** » Sat May 15, 2010 4:39 pm

I would suggest that instead of simply reaching forward as far as possible and sort of slapping at the water, rotate your torso a little bit toward the side you're stroking on. Hopefully you'll find that you'll be able to take more efficient strokes and get your paddle a little more vertical.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Mon May 17, 2010 3:34 am

thanks for the advice guys. Just as I thought, shorter and choppier.

My paddle wasn't vertical, nor fully in the water, because the water was only about 8 inchs deep. And I took a pretty good swim(upsidedown over a rocky class 3 chute) that day from catching a rock on my downstream side with the paddle...so I was pretty careful after that about getting my paddle stuck. I, recently lowered my seat to 7.5inchs, so I think i may switch to a shorter paddle as well. Thanks for suggesting sbroam...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNL3_feUsqQ

This is a video from today, at Stoney Creek. Hitting an off-side roll. I tried to punch the hole with a bit of angle to use the hole to spin the boat for the eddy... but I wasn't paddling with the power that I needed as it was the first rapid of the day, with no warm up. After that, I really got on my horse. And the short choppy, explosive strokes work really well. Snap into eddys much faster the more speed I got.

Anways... that roll wasn't too bad considering I only started rolling 2 weeks ago. Since then...I've hit about 15-20 combat rolls(i canoe a lot, and push it as much as I can on the water..so i flip a decent amount, unless i'm paddling lazy that day), and only really missed 5, all of which were on my offside.

Gumpy, showed me a new tuck set-up at cheatfest, and as soon as it became instinct to do(i was skipping the tuck before)... I hardly missed a roll.

All in all.... I feel real good right now with where I am at, as I haven't even made it through my first year yet. Quickest way to get good fast....is to always push what you are capable of. If you do that, and aren't phased by swims... you can gain skills real quickly, much quicker than if you paddle conservatively.

Next things I want to work on are...

1) Get an instinctive righting pry. If i would have done one on that video, i would have saved the flip.

2) Better form, stronger, and even more explosive strokes.

3) just keep getting more and more experience.

OC1er · Post by **OC1er** » Mon May 17, 2010 2:48 pm

Maybe try to use less arm and more body-hunchin' on the forward stroke? I try to think "vertical blade, move boat to paddle - hump it!" Not to split hairs, but isn't that an onside roll? In my opinion you'd have to come up on a cross to call it an offside roll. An offside roll to the kboaters is to set up and roll off the weak side. Don't matter which way ya flip!

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Mon May 17, 2010 3:41 pm

Yeap, git some reach: sometimes your shaft hand in the first sequence wasn't fully extended on the catch phase. I like to make my early catch really far so you can use it to draw a bit if needed, set up your boat lean and feel the water before you pull with both arm and torso...

As for the flip in the second vid, I would suggest you get to rely on your brace in funny (boiling) water. You were trying to get perfectly straight up, then the boat catched an edge... Work on feeling at ease bracing and you boat leaning onside; a righting pry is a lucky strike hard to rely on I think...

Just my 2cents worth.

Longboatin · Post by **Longboatin** » Mon May 17, 2010 5:21 pm

Lookn at yer stony video, I havta say u need to be workin on gettin yer boat thru hydralics. I observd the same thing on some of yer lines this past weekend on the stony. Yer on line, then as soon as you contact the foamy, the boat immediately turns.
You seem to be gittn around the river alright, but the lack of control when punchn a hole is what put u in the biggun on the stony, and caused yer flip in the vid.
Me, i'd say it was the boat. Tho surely other posts on paddle tech cant but help.
Anyway sure wuz nice seein the ever popular detonator gettin pushed to shore by a longboat.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Mon May 17, 2010 6:26 pm

"Not to split hairs, but isn't that an onside roll? In my opinion you'd have to come up on a cross to call it an offside roll. An offside roll to the kboaters is to set up and roll off the weak side. Don't matter which way ya flip!"

Yeah it's an onside roll... I got corrected a little earlier today about it. I guess that's the green-ness coming out in me.

As for punchin holes... Until the second have of the trip... after lunch

I wasn't really pounding my strokes... but 2nd half, I was definitely feeling it.

The other thing about punching holes is, I didnt really hit any hole on the stoney perpendicular. I always had an angle to use them to turn me. I didn't see anything big enough to want to just punch straight...even if it held me.

So next time i'm on the water.... the deal is... speed is the name of the game. I know that is contradictory in a Detonator, but if I can get that thing crankin...when I switch to something else, i'll definitely be moving.

It was nice to have the safety mobiles close by for help! Also nice to see you guys high ridin it...in the back of the boat.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Mon May 17, 2010 6:37 pm

can anyone here do an actual off-side roll? with a cross?...I was surfing a hole, spun myself to my off-side, flipped, still held in the hole...and my head was above water so i was able to focus and try to figure out what to do...

I knew from watching videos, that if my onside was downstream...i could use the hole and just put my paddle in the water and snap up the boat .

However, with my offside downstream....i was trying to do this, except my arms were crossed kind of like i was doing a cross bow draw, and the way my body was turned...the snap would have been hard to do on that side... So i eventually just ejected, but I really hate leaving my boat.

Do I just need more practice with it? Like do i have the right idea?

OC1er · Post by **OC1er** » Mon May 17, 2010 7:17 pm

I've tried fiddling with an offside roll in my cboats, it can be done but not by me. I've rolled where the paddle stays almost vertical - countering the hipsnap by pushing the paddle straight forward. That was the best strategy I could come up with but I get all confused upside down! I almost pulled one mid-chunder at Big Rock on the Noli - I had my head and shoulders out on some kind of stable brace and according to onlookers I could've hipsnapped up but I was in survivor mode, can't recall much beyond a general trashing...

gumpy · Post by **gumpy** » Tue May 18, 2010 1:09 am

as for the 'around the world' move, i'd say you'd benefit from a bit more practice with offside ferrying. get to the point where you're comfortable with really digging in with the cross forward, while tilting to the offside, focusing on your target.

i agree with what ncdavid said about efficiency. it's good to try moves like that over and over, seeing how few strokes you can pull it off with. you'll increase your efficiency, and confidence.

as for the hole-punch and roll, that looked like fun!

C-Forum

nice strokeage?

nice strokeage?

b c'n ya