...to me there's no one way. Sometimes one may do a better job than the other. Just guessing you have several variations on your forward stroke? And never much consider when to do which, you just do what's required. Now that you're aware, you'll soon be the same offside. I'd for certain keep that long original stroke...
I'm surprised that a cross-forward stroke having a recovery with the power face facing away from the hull (i.e., leading with your pinky instead of your thumb) feels like a good option.
I was taught that on the cross forward it's best to twist your top thumb in and forward (to put the power face to the hull), and that twisting your thumb towards you will get you in trouble.
Are there others who teach or advocate a cross-forward with a recovery phase that's 'thumb in' or 'power face out'?
but wouldn't the stroke need to finish sternward past the hip in order for the J to work? sounds kinda awkward, especially in shallow, steep stuff where i like to be onside as much as possible to be ready for the inevitable paddlesnake.
yarnellboat wrote:I'm surprised that a cross-forward stroke having a recovery with the power face facing away from the hull (i.e., leading with your pinky instead of your thumb) feels like a good option.
Are there others who teach or advocate a cross-forward with a recovery phase that's 'thumb in' or 'power face out'?
Pat.
..Does ANYONE advocate that?
that feels sooo awkward to me.
That's the only way to do an offside J. I messed with it on flat water, but I would roll my palm on the T on the recovery, so my power face switched blade-face every stroke. I personally can't see any use for a J in whitewater, onside or off...
Its not about the approach. Its about control in the hole.
I'm tellin you the Cross-Forward J is Sickkkk nasty. I'll attach a link soon of me demonstrating the legit-ness of the stroke in question.
I spent some considerable amount of time trying all different ways to do it and I believe snapping the power face out real quickly works for ME far better than any other stroke. It corrects itself enough throw 8-10 cross-forward strokes, and maintain a straight line in flatwater. The correction is almost no correction. It's basically corrects as you SNAP the paddle out of the water(recovery).
Between my forward stroke now, and cross forward, I spend no time on a correction...they are just J snaps as I'm pulling the paddle out of the water. I love it, because I dont have to take the extra time to do a quick WW pry. It's much faster than that, allowing me to throw more strokes for more speed.
Like I said - I'll post a link soon, and you'll have to let me know what you guys think. And Gumpy, as for shallow water, you won't catch me throwing a down stream stroke very much anymore... I hate flipping because the paddle catches. Instead, I can just paddle on my upstream side and hit a hard J, regardless of which side the paddle is on. Obviously, it may take a little more than that, but my downstream side is last option... just because of the potential to flip via paddle catching and acting as a lever.
Last edited by FullGnarlzOC on Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pat - The thumb actually rotates up and out - its a quick little snap on the top hand. The bottom hand and arm actually control the correction(snap)/recovery more so than the top hand does.
I'm assuming the reason it doesn't feel awkward to me is because I played hockey for 18 years, which I'm guessing, has very much aided me in my paddling abilities. From day one - I was very good with the paddle in terms of twisting and turning with both hands. I didn't have to spend much time..."getting use to using ur wrist".
Also, going from a really LONG cross-forward, which I found to be pretty comfortable(most would say this would feel very awkward as well)...the shorter stroke feels easier. The only thing that feels semi-awkward for me at this point is a cross skull n draw(if thats how u spell it). And even that is getting to be a stroke that I'll go to in WW if I want the boat to shift sideways toward my off-side. I believe this to be more effective than a bunch of onside prys.
I'll have to wait for the link to see how you are making your recovery (and "J snap") with your top thumb turning away from you, yet your power face facing away from the boat.
I can't picture a good offside stroke having the power face facing way from the hull. I think doing that (starting your recovery by leading with your pinky) happens as to some as a result of getting tangled by too long a stroke - can't picture it other than that.
I'm think I'd rather alternate with onside strokes than do 8-10 offside J snaps - alternating your power for correction is why they invented offside power strokes to begin with!
I don't get the offside-J either. You put your wrist in a terribly awkward position.
I can imagine that eventually for slalom racers it might be a stroke they could use once in a while (mind the extended use of possibilities!!). But for most mortal paddlers I see much more advantage in switching to the onside... . Just my 0.2$
We need video. An offside "J" with constant pressure on the power face will have your thumb pointing back at your head. I'm very comfortable with all kinds of offside strokes - not that they can all be individually and specifically identified - from perks to cross stern draws - stokes are more of a continuous spectrum to me, not a discrete list of "forms". This offside J sounds a bit awkward and I'm having trouble seeing an advantage of that "form".
My typical cross forward has probably been described in this thread already by somebody else - full extension, drive down the top hand, pull the stroke as far as it needs to go (sometimes knees, sometimes further), point thumb *forward* slicing the paddle forward *in* water and parallel (or a little open) and correcting with however much bow draw is needed, resume forward stroke, lather, rinse, repeat, as fast or as slow as needed. Sometimes the paddle comes back to my hip or behind and stays in a static draw or something more like a sculling stroke, especially when ferrying, sideslipping over to a wave, etc.
Here is a dump of some pictures my daughter took this weekend - I'm not saying these are perfect form strokes, they're just what I do. Haven't actually had a chance to see what it looks like when I'm paddling in a while...
I played hockey for 18 years, which I'm guessing, has very much aided me in my paddling abilities
it does look like yer paddlin wid a hockey stick out there.
And on the "legit" side, is the vid gonna be a demonstation on the flat, cuz any stroke is pretty much valid there. I propose yer vid be on whitewater using said stroke to actually do something, so's we webkins can get the best potential aha! moment.
you're lefty, right tom? hows about a vid of you utilizing this stroke to perform an offside ferry from that last river right eddy before recyclotron, across the current just above the hole! that would convince folks...
