cheajack wrote:If the Fink or Atom or Cascade were such a great boats why don't you see three or four every weekend?
I usually do, Jack. Well Atom's and Cascades. But I've been guiding on a class II/III run, too. Saw 0 other c1s on 2 ocoee runs sunday, thought. Maybe a dozen canoes or more.
Side note: Am I really the only one who misses owning a Cascade. I think it is a really fun boat. You can peel out of eddies with one stroke and ferry 20ft across the river!
TheKrikkitWars wrote:I've paddled the villain; the best way I can describe it is "Imagine you have a Jefe, now imagine it just became twice as tippy, and then imagine that it's much harder to control it turning if it goes off line... and there you have the villain".
That's because it's a silly narrow KAYAK that's designed for people that sit on their a$$e$ and use two blades!!!
How about the Fluid "Solo"? I have a few friends paddling them as yaks and they seem to like them... but everytime I really look them over I see kayak things that we don't need and imagine C1 things we would probably want.
Another boat just based on appearance would be the D.R. Critical Mass... good lines... lot's of volume... but still... not exactly designed for a c-boaters needs.
In all honesty... I kind've like the look and the specs of the large L.L. Remix... but have never been in one... looks like it would be a good river-runner and class IV creeker... thoughts?
solo accelerates very well, but to me, looks to slow to be a good c1. i paddled a critical mass c1 in the pool and didn't like it. that doesn't mean much. plus, if i had one, i could cover up the 'm' so people would know what they were getting into.
Larry Horne wrote:thing is, with kayaks we can choose from; full on creekers, to river runners to river/play, to play, etc.. and all of those in two or three different sizes!
Amen. If you can't beat them, join'em.
Then comes the evergoing outfitting issue.
No new C1 dedicated design for quite some time, OK but don't we have to give at least some credit to a cie that would both try to design boats for both purposes and give a decent outfitting option commercially available on their boats?
Here's my first argument regarding conversions... kayaks are meant to be paddled with a lower center of gravity and blades on both sides to brace/propel the boat... kayaks are also narrow in comparison to a purpose designed C-boat... when you kneel in a kayak you raise the center of gravity and by using a single blade you are already 2/3rds of the way to a bad combination of boat and paddler... at least from my perspective.
Just as an example (and mind you these are actually good boaters) watch this video and pay special attention to the amount of bracing that's happening. Should they be bracing and correcting... or paddling forward?
Good point Craig, but to my knowledge this used to be a big problem whereas today, not so much anymore. You don't see so much narrow 23-24 inches wide design anymore and many yak cies have come up with pretty stable boats much more suitable for C1 purposes, like the remix 79, to name just that one, that has 27" and is plenty stable...
Total thread hijacked done now... Surprised about the vilain tought it looked better than that.
Why do people say the Cascade underperformed? i have one but have not yet paddled, need to tweak the outfitting, I got it for whitewater overnight trips.
I want a Plastic c-2 riverrunner, I think there would be a market. No more bailing. But would need tobe a boat that would be an easy transition from an OC2
Yes there are some things to be desired, but only to a point. And frankly my center of gravity is not to much higher than a kayaker with the saddles I use.
Remix great boat for pretty much anything
Critical Mass had one and it was awful I mean friggin terrible maybe you would like it if you enjoy your edges catching everytime you come out of an eddy. I don't really enjoy almost flipping pulling out of an eddy above a drop
xmas0c1c1k1 wrote:Yes there are some things to be desired, but only to a point. And frankly my center of gravity is not to much higher than a kayaker with the saddles I use.
Remix great boat for pretty much anything
Critical Mass had one and it was awful I mean friggin terrible maybe you would like it if you enjoy your edges catching everytime you come out of an eddy. I don't really enjoy almost flipping pulling out of an eddy above a drop
How well did the C.M. resurface after a drop in your opinion? I had a D.R. Fish... it too was a bit too grabby at times for my taste... that boat left my fleet pretty quickly... fast though...
Like I said... I really like the lines on the Remix... I truly feel it's one of Shane's best designs ever. Guess I'll have to see if someone will let me hop in one to get a feel for it as a C1
resurfaced alright it just had really funky edges I mean I would get tripped up coming out of eddies in like class II water
not confidence inspiring by any means
it left my fleet incredibly fast
I'll be the first to admit I'm not a fan of conversions - ALL my boats were C1's to start with.
That said, I do know that there are several kayaks that are better C1's than kayaks:) Designers don't get it right ALL the time, and sometimes it is to our benefit.
And I will point out there are no new PLASTIC C1 designs since the Wheelboy (IIRC the Fink was first, but I could be wrong and it could be the latest plastic design), but there are several glass designs, including the Ceemweaver by Jim Snyder.
I do wish Marko had gotten his creekboat in to production - from the comments on this board it seems what most folks think is missing is a good C1 creekboat (that can also be used for big water and tripping), as the Fink isn't for everyone.
I do not know about the detox.
I have paddled with my frined in scotland 2 years ago he was paddling gr 4 in a solo, it is a bit slow but good stalbel and nice in the lines.
the detox will be in his hands , just not sure when , he want to build a c1 from it , but he is has not much time at the moment and is short on cash.
there Pure looks good , but is more a real creeker like a solo jeffe nomad ect.
detox is a riverrunner great for rivers etc. I think the edges are a bit hard on shallow ditches.
Propper Writing in English, how do you do that, with dyslexia, bad hand eye coordination, ect. and in a foreign language
sorry fore all the mistakes.
, he want to build a c1 from it , but he is has not much time at the moment and is short on cash. 
