canoe creeking 2011

[oc1kcwlkr]

if your just paddling class 2 now. I wouldn't necessarily worry about a boat that will be durable creeking class 4/5 ish stuff

your probably gonna go through a couple of boats in that time frame.

i'd recommend getting an edgier boat in the 9-10 foot range and .beat it down. By then you'll have an idea of what boat you wanna take to the next level. I think this is your best option if your on a tight budget.

now, with all that said, If you can find a used spanish fly definately go for it. But good luck with that. Those are hard to come by

[markzak]

you might want to consider trying a mohawk rodeo too, you can sometimes find them used/abused for very cheap.

[Creeker]

after a little online looking I'm thinking the prelude and then the spanish fly for used market.

Dooley I was looking at louie's suggestion of the Teaureau it seemed like a good creeker though visually I'm not so inspired as it leans a bit too kayak for me....I have the same moderately negative asthetic feeling for the spanish fly. Curious where the Teaureau shakes out in your thinking. Also, I'm wondering if I'm selling the spanish fly short on asthetics alone....is itpossibly a bit more nimble to point it and go vs a l'edge. how do the ledge, SF and Prelude shake out against each other.

Astheticly speaking I like the Prelude and the open version of the L'edge best. If I'm buying into the L'edge I'd have to hear some really positive things to keep the closed deck. The money isn't the pimary thought here with me.

Question: if you buy the l'edge whats the rough time required to convert it to non decked myself? is it really that hard for a detail oriented wood craftsmen?

lastly I'm not the most powerful guy are any of these canoes easier to react to make split second changes of lines around wood in a drop. Ya gotta get that last chance eddy on those flashing creeks.

[Dooleyoc-1]

The Taureau is a good boat but I prefer more traditional looking canoes (I hate it when kayakers ask "so why don't you just put a skirt on that thing")

I recommend the prelude or open version of the L'Edge. Call me a traditionalist but that are my favorite boats.

The spanish fly kicks butt to paddle but I hate it when friends that don't boat see photos of me in the fly and say "I thought you paddled a canoe"

Here's the comparison by boat:

spanish fly (stable, agile, wet)
prelude (fast for a short boat, dry for a short boat, agile, not stable)
L'edge open version (very stable, very dry, very agile, slower than prelude faster than fly)

[Craig Smerda]

Question: if you buy the l'edge whats the rough time required to convert it to non decked myself? is it really that hard for a detail oriented wood craftsmen?

lastly I'm not the most powerful guy are any of these canoes easier to react to make split second changes of lines around wood in a drop. Ya gotta get that last chance eddy on those flashing creeks.

If you are handy and not uncomfortable cutting the top off a brand new boat and you are familiar with installing gunnels... it shouldn't be too bad.

How tall are you and how much do you weigh? That might help people give you the best advise regarding used boat selection as well.

I'll ditto Dooleys comments on the boats.

[Creeker]

Craig, i'm 165 lbs @ 5' 11"

Are these all about the same to roll in difficulty? What's easier?

decked ledge vs not
the reports are the design is drier than other canoes.....the decks impove even that. It's really hard to quantify this extra dryness; Dooley or other racers if you were to hazard a guess, if you put in a green narrows race lap where you balance performance, safety and Time, how many times would you expect to dump your boat with and without a deck. Any difference likely? Other than pencil sharpener I'm curious where canoe racers typically need to dump. I've watched the race a couple time from all over so feel free to be rapid specific.

if you get a decked l'edge is it harder to handle (grabbing) without a gunnel to grab? looks probably so. This seems to be maybe worth noting in hard creeking where you tend to jump out next to lethal hazards at any given blind corner.

how about hiking with it say out panther creek level of portage/hike out. the decked l'edge seems like it might be a pain? Am i just thinking this through too much. I might not have the skills yet but I'm burning some brain cells over this possible $2000 purchase.

I'm guessing a decked l'edge is safer for the canoe.

[Larry Horne]

with all these worries about weight, dryness etc., you might consider a c1, they are dryer, lighter, cheaper, way more funner , and cooler

[Craig Smerda]

Maybe this will help... http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic. ... ght=#67900

Sorry I don't have a Prelude... maybe Dooley can shoot some of his for another comparison.

I do have a few pictures here though...
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=6 ... 175affb4f5

Be sure to check--> THIS <--out!!!

[gumpy]

if you're a class 2 boater in an ME, and looking to step it up, my opinion is that the prelude would be a poor choice. its almost total lack of initial stability would instantly make you a class 2 swimmer. i'd narrow the choices to spanish fly or l'edge. these 2 boats are already a world apart from what you are accustomed to in the ME, the prelude is more akin to paddling a beachball. save that for later (or never)

and as for dryness- that's gonna depend alot on skill, not just boat.

[golder]

i dig my spanish fly. a lot. maybe more than a man should like an inanimate object. give it a whirl before you write it off for looking not like a canoe. i have a nitro too, but i've found i greatly prefer my fly for creek boating. it is on the wet side, but even full to the top of water, it still is stable, though your buddies in the eddy downstream better look out!

all that said, as soon as i pay off the bills for the renovations on my house, i'll be saving up money for a l'edge.

[FullGnarlzOC]

pony up $2000 for the l'edge. that's ur best bet prob. Prelude would be a bad choice fer sure. especially if you dont like to be upside down.

a Detonator is a good way to go. It's royalex. But I assure you...it should last you long enough to full decide if 'canoe creeking' is your thing (do u like added risk? ) especially if you are handy w/ repairs. If you decide you want to keep at it, sell it, keep it, whatever..and then get a plastic boat.

As for dodging wood, and making last ditch eddys... it's all in the paddler. You're probably going to want to get all the tricks under your belt before you go big with the flash. Simple moves like eddying, ferrying, and surfing, should be able to be done with ease in class III/IV. Outside of that, I'd recommend a good back ferry in ur bag of tricks, this can often, stop you dead in current, and allow you to shift river sides. On-side draws and cross draws are another big one. All these things can be worked on when paddling flatwater, II, and III. When you get all that down... and a bombproof roll (and i do mean BOMB PROOF)... ur ready to hit the steeps, if you can stomach not having an offside brace

Speaking of a brace... ur should also have a 'slapper' of a low brace. A good low brace, imo, can be heard from miles away haha. not really...but def make a slapping sound on the water. That will save ur butt from any line misreads, misruns (coupled with a BProof Combat roll).

canoe creeking from what i gather... especially when you just start getting into it, is incredible challenging even when you can do all thee above. Then factor in all the unique features that creeks have to offer, and...well you get my point.

my advice would be to start drilling all thee above. an ME will do just fine to learn all that is necessary. Then all you have to do is get use to the tippyness of a short boat, and you're ready to rock.

Disclaimer: I may, or may not know what I am talking about. So take all this for what u will.

[yarnellboat]

Full,

You better take this guy under your wing!

P.

[Creeker]

Full,

You better take this guy under your wing!

well those are good reasons to possibly pass on the prelude perhaps, thx grumpy & Full.

It seems the ledge might be easier too in the way of boating in 30 degee weather vs the SF (dryness/warmness). I seem to remember a really good paddler saying they got a spanish fly only to move it on as they didn't like it much??? Just curious are there any reluctant posters that didn't care for the SF(why?) or even L'edge(why?) Same sort of question line but from the glass is half full perspective.

What about the bags
I was thinking again this morning about the ledge decks....when you are creeking hard or even on class 2-3 have you or your friends had many bags get popped by pressure, rocks or sticks. Are the decks considered a mild advantage, a pain to deal with bags. I saw a post about drilling some 3/8 holes to secure the bags forward.....any elaboration on ledge air bags.......hahaha.....i just got an image in my mind typing that of hitting a piton and a car safety bag deploys saving my face from the deck/thwart.

[OC1er]

Don't write off the Prelude, it's a bad unit. It'll do what you need once you realize how it's done. And if you can do it in a prelude you can do it in anything, besides maybe the zoom, and if you can do it in a zoom you're doing something!

[Louie]

Ya right, Larry a C1 is way cooler....................on the left coast. I know it is kilt not a skirt, but it is still a kilt. Larry just how close to San Franciso do you live?