c1 pin experiences

fez · Post by **fez** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:27 am

without hands ?

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:41 am

i hate worryin about the airbags. also hate the weight.... so all good reasons to want to stop OC1ing and switch to C1...

although... I hate not having an off-side brace too. maybe i should just kayak?

pffftttttt. thats like sayin... i hate the fact that all hot girls with large tracts of land n a smokin r crazy. maybe i should just downgrade and find a girl thats easier to deal with, far less good looking n a butt like a bag of wet clothes....but then again, then i'd have to wait up in the morning, see wuts layin next to me and have to think....'wtf happen to my life'

im jk xmas. i do feel ya on ur complaints with the oc.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:01 pm

xmas0c1c1k1 wrote:I think alot of the escapability is in the backrest height once you get your arse over the top of that everything gets pretty loose fast

Oh Yeah!, The canoe I took to africa had a woefully inadequate back block, which could be blamed for at least two of my swims out there (Paddling into a very large pourover because I couldn't remember the line and drifting into the current with no deck or straps are definately examples of my own stupidity instead though.)

oopsiflipped · Post by **oopsiflipped** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:01 pm

i've had several c1's i could get out of without pulling my skirt. it was a pretty good sign that my outfitting was not adequate. reminded me of my canoeing days.

Post by **sbroam** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:04 pm

I've gotten out of C-1s without pulling the skirt or releasing the straps, but not without pushing on the boat with my hands.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:00 pm

xmas0c1c1k1 wrote:Is there any possible way to get out of a c1 without using your hands to pull the skirt? I just don't think it is possible like you can in a kayak

Humble pie time...

Back when I first started paddling and long before I had anything resembling a reliable roll I had an Atom... at least twice I swam out of that boat without pulling the skirt or releasing the straps... I pushed my skinny arse right through the skirt... and both times the skirt stayed on the boat.

A couple of my friends remind me of those incidents now and again.

Then... there was this one time I was already out of the boat before it completely flipped over...

mmmmmmmmmm.... humble pie!!!

Post by **sbroam** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:10 pm

Only once? I made a misquided high water, February run on a class II+ creek in a new to me Gyramax - ro roll, no proper gear, but a good group (except that they let me go). 6 dry hair swims, 1 lost class ring, and a river side fire after the 6th swim...

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:25 pm

My humbling moment came with my first WW boat - a Cascade, about 3 weeks after I got it. I had one class II run in the canoe (before the skirt shipped) with no problem, but didn't love the foam outfitting in it. I pulled all the foam out and re-did it (saddle higher, further forward, etc.) and the glue dried the night before I headed up to the Nanty to paddle it.

I had gotten tied up, so was late at the put in. My friends took off before I got there, but I decided I was going anyway. First time with a skirt on, balance points way off (I was at least 2" too far forward - stern was disengaged and I couldnt keep it straight to save my life), shorty wetsuit and a fleece top. Oh, and it was I think December or something.

I hit some little hidden rock on the way down Patton's, and over I went. Three attempts to roll (yeah...I think that was a great time to start considering how you do that) and I decided it was time to kick free. FWIW, you do need to intentionally pull the strap if it's a brand new Mountain Surf if you wanna get out

I was freezing, soaked to the bone, and breathless. I retreated from the river and went back to being tied up for a bit.

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:34 pm

Craig Smerda wrote:
xmas0c1c1k1 wrote:Is there any possible way to get out of a c1 without using your hands to pull the skirt? I just don't think it is possible like you can in a kayak
Humble pie time...

Back when I first started paddling and long before I had anything resembling a reliable roll I had an Atom... at least twice I swam out of that boat without pulling the skirt or releasing the straps... I pushed my skinny arse right through the skirt... and both times the skirt stayed on the boat.

A couple of my friends remind me of those incidents now and again.

Then... there was this one time I was already out of the boat before it completely flipped over...

mmmmmmmmmm.... humble pie!!!

same here

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:48 pm

jakke wrote:If you're not totally strapped in under the skirt, you should be able to. You can rise your upper body quite much, enough to release the skirt?
You sure cannot do that in a kayak, but a c1 migt be possible? Any experiences?

Feels possible to me, now my outfits experiences are limited but:

In my lil freestyle boat I can get out of the lapstrap if it is setted not so thight. in my creeker I can pull out without releasing the QR, but in both cases that means quite a bit of push strenght / wiggle out and my legs have to run back quite a bit. My old skirt (harmony LC1) wasn't that thight at all and would let me get out pretty easily, the actual one (NRS lucky charm) is thighter and much much dryer but will ask me to push much more to get out.

Still, it is possible, for me at least. And much easier when trying it out in water, flipped, than on the bank.

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:12 pm

Hard to discuss this when my only experience with c-1 cockpits is/was with relatively small cockpits, not with big Cascade/Atom style cockpits.

With small cockpits like my old Phoenix, in which I did most of my "hard" paddling, or my Dagger Zealot, the skirt does not have to be ultra tight to avoid leaking. The Phoenix c-1 had a pretty small cockpit, yet on occasion I was able to kick out without pulling the skirt. In fact, with certain old skirts, I could kick out through the tunnel, leaving the skirt on the boat.

But that was when I was thin.

Few would go back to small cockpits, but I would not abide an Atom lawyer-designed open pit. With a small cockpit, the underside of the deck can be padded to support the thighs. You don't need ultra tight straps, or double straps. I'm 6' 5" and never had a problem with small cockpits. As long as I could get in, I could get out.

All my c-1s had full walls and full bags. The only pin I recall was the flat rear deck of the Phoenix getting grabbed from behind below Grumpy. Managed to squirm the boat loose. Flat rear decks are a danger. A k-1 friend got his Noah Aeroquatic pinned from behind exiting Amicalola Edge in an apparently innocuous spot.

All you guys with conversions, I know from nothing. My knees hurt even in OC-1, and kayaking is looking better and better.....

golder · Post by **golder** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:59 am

heck at the whitewater center in charlotte, i got pulled out of my boat, thru my skirt. that skirt is a hair too big though. as a most of the time open boater, i didn't really miss the skirt during my swim. it wasn't till i flipped my boat back over in the eddy that i had that aha moment.

xmas0c1c1k1 · Post by **xmas0c1c1k1** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:30 pm

ok yes I know you can come out without hands when you don't want to so that would just be bad outfitting, but can you have a good outfitting system that holds you in when you want but lets you get out hands free when you want to get out. I don't think it is possible that is the big safety benefit i see with kayaks you can pop the skirt with your knees and step out with a c1 you are either gonna have to pull something or push out really hard on your boat.

So hypothetical you are pinned or something and the onlything keeping you up is your death grip on the rock/rope you have with your hands how do you get out?

I just think it is the part of c1ing that is a bit more dangerous than others because it is much harder to get out of the boat. We all use different systems which have varying degrees of escapability and security. I mean I like to be locked in very tight with straps to the point where I have had trouble getting out even after pulling skirt this is why I now have a one pull system. I think even some people have a knack for being able to stay wedged in boats with loose outfitting better than others.

I know some swear by the bulkhead but first and foremost I am to lazy and terrible with foam to do one of these. Also I never feel super tight prob cause its not my bulkhead and third I feel like the bulkhead makes you sit the same way everytime that may sound weird but I find myself shifting quite a bit throughout a day even. Plus you can loosen straps in the easy stuff for a bit more comfort. Obviously this is just me and I know that it is a personal thing completely