Deeper into the offside-eddy

[Larry Horne]

boys. you are missing the point. he is spinning out... don't need no draw or duffek or whatever you want to call it

i think adam, bob p and oops win this one. some boats spin out horribly on eddy lines. that makes approach angle all the more critical. then finish it up like bob p.

[jscottl67]

Plant your paddle in a draw position to aid the turn, Turn it into a forward stroke to really pull yourself in

And isn't that particular blending of strokes what some people would call a duffeck?

Pat.

Yeah, it is. But I like saying duffeck (or however you spell it)

[jscottl67]

I agree with you, just wondering how much different Bob P's cross forward and pry is from an offside duffeck planted across the eddy line? When I do a duffeck turn like that, I usually extend out as the boat slides across and am basically doing a forward stroke after the extension.

[Shep]

Yep, it's a duffek. The point is that 26 different strokes is confusing. Why teach them it's a duffek if they already know the bow draw and the forward stroke? You only get so much attention span/learning ability from any given student. Why waste it on a name for a stroke when there is so much great stuff to learn?

Like I said, this is shameless threadjacking on my part... One of my pet peeves is the way that canoe strokes are organized into a lot of little bins, sometimes with confusing names, instead of helping people understand that every stroke is some mixture of power, turning, and bracing. You should mix the ingredients differently in every stroke so that you get what you need at that particular moment.

Hmmm... then again, I could try to get an off-side duffek-highbrace-sculling sideslip called a Shep!

[yarnellboat]

Larry, I figured that once he gets the boat across the eddyline without spinning out, he'll still eventually want to be facing upstream!

P.

[jscottl67]

I hear ya. I don't think about all the strokes and the names, because once you're on moving water, pretty much every stroke is a blend and adaptation. I know it's jargon, but duffek pretty much sums up a lot of words in one - not like a cross forward bow sweep.

[Larry Horne]

this too techi for me

pat-ya but what if it's a dive?

[sbroam]

There is only one infinite stroke. Ommmmmmm.

[kiwic1chick]

I use a sort of a wide offside power stroke finishing in an offside stern rudder - takes you straight across the eddy line, and you need a gliding bow draw to turn towards the top of the eddy. (I paddle a Bliss-stick RAD, so my stern rudder is often behind the boat, but this works just as well with longer boats - I've used it for slalom as well.)

[philcanoe]

(all the above)

Plus SOMETIMEs you might try lightening the bow, by leaning back and lifting up on your knees.... and then as you cross the eddy-line throw your weight forward... while carving on a edge and throwing a large forward (in unison).... it can either be an upstream or downstream edge depending on amount of desired penetration.

The above will help you really go deep into the eddy, and maybe even shoot you all the way through...but,however,is... this an every time occurrence or just a sometimes thing?

[TheKrikkitWars]

I think it's silly to teach people the Duffek.

I think you're blinkered.

Once you learn how to plant a low telemark stroke [aka duffek] (or high telemark if you're in a slicy boat and hold a perculiar dislike of your shoulders) you've learned all of the core paddle positioning needed for the bow-draw, bow-pry, the sculled versions of both of those strokes... and most important of them all The Hanging Draw.

Some might say that those are all variations on a theme, and they'd be right... that doesn't mean they should just receive one generic name though (hence my use of the high/low telemark nomenclature), each has a different (potentially very different) outcome... and paddling is all about outcomes!


Now almost everything you can do with a duffek, you can do leaning on a low brace, or just balancing;

The advantage is that you can use the duffek as part of a chain of strokes to achieve your goal. ie, duffek into the eddy and then just scull a pry or draw to help keep you off the eddy line, or come out of the eddy with a little upstream speed, plant a hanging draw, move halfway across the river effortlessly, then turn the blade into a duffek, lean hard downstream, pull on the duffek to form a powerstroke as you reach the desired angle and shoot off with lots of lovely speed!

[Rand C1]

Madness...........Madness......

[oopsiflipped]

i'll admit that i've pretty much not read the other responses. it's the crappy conversion! cfs isn't good enough design to c1.

[Shep]

Josh, if I understand your British accent correctly ( ), either you are misunderstanding me or vice-versa. I don't think you should not teach people how to do the components of the duffek, or not teach them to chain things together. But for a beginning canoe class, why beat people over the head with specific combinations? (and particularly names of combinations!) Just teach them to experiment with combinations and learn how to combine the basics for whatever they need to do, including a duffek. Better yet, use a feature on the river so that they discover the duffek for themselves, and I promise they'll remember it far better than if you told them "Here, this is a duffek. You should learn it."

Shep