L'EDGE QUESTION/CONCERN..(edited for content to page 2)

Kelvin · Post by **Kelvin** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:37 pm

Hi Folks,

I am looking at getting my hands on a L'Edge in the not too distant future but I have some concerns. Width and speed! I am 5'8'' and 159lb, I am worried that this boat is going to be too wide and therefore slow. Do you get optimum performance at this width or is it wide to give it a level of stability to sell boats to the masses? As this boat is marketed at the 'high performance paddler' I hope this hull is based purely on performance.

I am paddling a Taureau at the moment and find it painfully slow!

Any thoughts would be much appreciated,

Thanks in advance,

Kelvin.

ian123 · Post by **ian123** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:58 pm

It's not really clear what you re asking/saying. Speed and width are obviously related... neither are synonymous with "performance"...

french erick · Post by **french erick** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:01 pm

hey Kelvin,
a not serious answer: eating pies could improve your performance! How cool...get stuck in them yorshire puds

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:02 pm

As far as I can tell Kelvin is asking if the l'edge is slow (potentially as a function of its bredth).

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:57 pm

It is faster than TEAUREAU
SUPERFLY
QUAKE
SPANISH FLY
CU FLY
AFTERSHOCK
SALSA

It is equal to a SKEETER

It is slower than PRELUDE

However that bein said I will say again it seems to have plenty of speed to me (but i have been in a Teaureau since 2006) The fact that I am so stable in it I don't need to do many back or brace strokes I can be diggin forward all the time, I seem to be able to build up and maintain speed better than I can in a lot of boats

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:57 pm

If you have good balance, buy a Prelude. You're the perfect size for one. People complain about the lack of initial stability in a Prelude, but I actually see it as one of its performance features. It's really easy to tilt the boat and engage it. Because of its narrower width, it's faster than the L'edge. (Caveat: I haven't seen or paddled the latter to know how much slower.) I also find it really easy to right a Prelude with a hip snap when it starts to go over.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:10 pm

Louie wrote:It is faster than TEAUREAU
SUPERFLY
QUAKE
SPANISH FLY
CU FLY
AFTERSHOCK
SALSA

It is equal to a SKEETER

It is slower than PRELUDE

However that bein said I will say again it seems to have plenty of speed to me (but i have been in a Teaureau since 2006) The fact that I am so stable in it I don't need to do many back or brace strokes I can be diggin forward all the time, I seem to be able to build up and maintain speed better than I can in a lot of boats

Been listening for a while... and not wanting to cry foul (after all Craig is a friend) But the L'edge is not near as nimble or responsive than the whole group Louie's listed.. except for maybe the Quake... which was changed and reintroduced so many times - I'll let that speak for itself. As fas as in a straight line, definitely slower than any Fly, Skeeter, or Prelude.

Am NOT saying this is a POS... but if you got a handle on the above canoes, you may not be interested. Yes, the dryness is impressive and it's very stable. Which are both quite good things and very desirable. But as most people already know, there are trade offs with every boat... and in this case (to answer the asked question) wide still does equal slow. Yes - most of the general everyday boaters will be satisfied; however the guys wanting quick may not be willing to make the trade.

(Sorry - can not answer the Taureau part

as I have very limited experience with one.)

ian123 · Post by **ian123** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:10 pm

Uh oh

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:19 pm

Uh oh is right I had a full response typed but hit the wrong button. I will get back to you later Phill.

For now I will say Phill has not paddle a Ledge two rapid back to back and he has never done a whole river in one.

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:28 pm

"The best description I can give for the L'Edge has the stability of the fly with the maneuverability of an Ocoee. I can't believe how much freeboard there is in this little boat , how dry it is and how much faster it is than the fly. It is absolutely amazing on wave trains. It feels like a a balloon or something just riding on top. It loves to surf and punches holes just as you have heard."

Standingman · Post by **Standingman** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:33 pm

I have to agree with Phil, if you are looking for speed I would look at the Prelude. I have only been in the L'edge one time and the Prelude one time I did not think the L'edge was faster. I paddel a skeeter and I think it is faster. But both are wetter then a decked L'edge.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:00 pm

From another thread...

Craig Smerda wrote:Here's a few of my own thoughts on "hull speed".

It's great to have hull speed but for the most part it's not always the deal breaker in regards to me liking a boat or not. I'll confess... I'm actually a fairly lazy paddler when I can be and I always try to let the water do the bulk of the work. I'll often times search out the greatest concentration of current (green water) to propel myself or catch the blade in. I actually can turn it on when I have to though.... "uh oh... time for a boof stroke" A Spark for example has loads of hull speed but for the average boater at times that speed means missing eddies or not being able to turn the boat quickly and easily. It doesn't mean the boat can't... it just goes really fast better. For creeking or running drops/slides/etc. I don't always find speed necessary as sometimes going with the rivers flow and throwing in a few quick powerful tugs on the paddle at the right time yields more positive results. My favorite boat (SpanishFly) really does lack speed at certain times when you really wish it had more of it... but for the most part it isn't needed for running a drop or steep ledges with fast moving water. It's those times that you have to have a bit more speed that made me deviate away from copying the SPFly's rocker profile completely.

So... If a boat has too much speed (typically less rocker) and not enough speed (typically lot's of rocker) you often compromise a bit of the boats turning ability for getting in and out of those tight spots when creeking or running tight and technical rivers. Finding a balance between these two things is really a challenge... especially with nine feet to work with.

I feel as though every boat's platform and length combined with it's own intended uses needs to find it's own ideal hull speed and turning ability. Each time you move one direction... you lose a bit going the other direction.

I feel it is faster overall than a SuperFly or SpanishFly

I feel it is not faster overall than a Skeeter or Prelude

I feel it is about as nimble as we could have made it without giving it anymore rocker than we did.

Here's where this boat has a few distinct advantages for river running or creeking though in my opinion...

#1 It's more stable... which means most people will spend more time focusing on the river and actually paddling forward than they are bracing and correcting.
#2 It's far drier than anything on Louie's list (in my opinion at least) which to me translates to less time spent on the side of the river dumping water out of the boat... which also means "faster" if we're racing.

#3 It performs as close to the SpanishFly (my favorite boat ever) as we could have made it without just completely copying it and throwing sides on it... but this boat can actually handle people better that are bigger, it's drier and it does do certain things better imo. Remember Phil... Frankie designed the Fly as a rodeo boat... it just happens to work really well as a general purpose boat too. which you know I love... that was the same goal with this one... versatility.

I'm not really interested in any of the other boats on that list or that are out there... I don't think that's a big secret. The bottom line for me is... I'll be sharing the majority of my time with my SpanishFly, this boat and my C1... it's just going to depend on what it is that I want to do that day... and if I just want to go fast... I'll borrow a Spark or a race C1.

OC_1 · Post by **OC_1** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:03 pm

from my understanding and i could be wrong but the primary design they say is to be able to boof and i guess that is the same as going over ledge but also to be a good creek boat and they said you dont need speed for creeking

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:29 pm

C'mon Craig, how are the plans for a L'Edge 10-4 version?!

As a guy coming from a more traditional open boat (i.e., an Outrage - not a Skeeter, Fly or Quake), and one who doesn't do a whole lot of creeking & boofing, I'd love to have a L
'Edge with a little more in the way of hull speed!

Based on the early success of the L'Edge, there's got to be a market for an even-more-normal version!

Pat.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:29 pm

I am not slamming the boat, and believe a great many will find it perfectly acceptable.... A person does not have to be in agreement to my post, just as Craig has made a fair reliable reply, to one of mine.