Is really big water fun in a canoe?

SamS · Post by **SamS** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:54 pm

I don't mean big water like the Gauley or the New... I'm talking about huge, continuous runs. Runs like NF Payette, Quake Lake of the Madison, etc. Are runs like this fun in an open boat?

Dooleyoc-1 · Post by **Dooleyoc-1** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:26 pm

I guess one "big water" run I've done based on your criteria in a canoe is Gore Canyon of the Colorado River at about 1,200 cfs. That was really big for a canoe. It was one of the most fun days of boating I've ever had.

Oh yeah, there was also the time I did the upper west prong in the smokies at 1.7 ft (it's a continuous V+ run and that is a very high water level; it was a 600 ft per mile river with huge holes that day). I was with some of the best kayakers in the southeast and I got so far in front of them before I could finally stop that it took them about 5 minutes to catch up (because they actually caught the 2 or 3 eddys at that level). I was in a prelude and I couldn't stop. I lost count of how many rapids I flushed into backwards full of water. I also rolled in about 5 or 6 rapids in a row. I was about 1/3 through the run before I was able to stop (it's about a 2 mile run). At that point I hiked off. Thank goodness I didn't swim.

That was a fun day to talk about after the fact but it wasn't fun while I was on the water. It was pretty scary. (i didn't realize the level was that high until later because the gauge is at the takeout and it was coming up fast as we drove to the put-in. I knew it was higher than I'd ever run it but didn't know it was that high...)

insolence · Post by **insolence** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:53 pm

I think the way an OC behaves is more fun and more comfy than in a decked boat. The only concern I have - and the reason why I prefer C1 on big water - is that my decked boat roll is bombproof while in open boat isn't. AND there are rivers without eddys to bail out

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:13 pm

Do you mean run's recognized

as big water or runs's that are indeed big-(huge)-water.... for instance the NF of Payette could be called big-water, while there may not be very much water and certainly not huge. While at the same time mucho water on the New or Gauley may classify as big-(huge)-water. For instance when they stop commercial raft traffic.

Yes - very much fun.

Curious - where would (way-high) blown out creeks fit into your question?

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:57 pm

Having been on the Nile (average flow 18,000 cfs; max flow 32,000 cfs) I'd say that in a C1 it's not a problem, and even the hardest rapids are eminently runnable to a sufficiently skilled paddler (I dodged the hardest "main channel" rapid Ithanda, but it goes for C1 ers).

However, I can see several of the hardest rapids being unrunable, and several more of the main channels being extremely unpalatable in an open canoe... It's pretty much impossible to stop enough water to swamp you to the gunnel crashing down in the first 3 seconds.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:00 pm

Yes... 27,000+cfs in a SpanishFly... big smiles and heart stopping action... it was like riding on top of an out of control freight train. When holes and waves are four-five times the height of your head in your boat... that's gettin' big.

To Phil... I don't know if you remember Craig Reidner or not... but he and I ran the Lower Yough one day on the way to the Richmond OCS Nat's in cut-down Ocoee's... I think it was around 7ft+... there were no rafts on the water... nor was there anyone else... we just did the "loop"... talk about a whole 'nother river.

I guess I'll consider anything "big water" when most stuff is running at 3-4X it's average flow... some stuff gets easier... while some of them get out of hand.

scott curtis · Post by **scott curtis** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:16 pm

back to topic.. huge continous ... huge = long or wide? .... maybe tall? continous = micro eddies only ? or more like continous whirlpools like charlotte ww .? isn't this a newbie question in the main forum .. it sounds like you are thinking about going big in something . just do it . nike. if u survived it , don't go again, if u had fun , gag it and bag it ~ scott[/u]

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:05 pm

To me the definition of big water is when you're no longer dodging and eddying behind rocks, but instead negotiating big wave trains, avoiding large holes. and catching shore eddies when you can find them.

scott curtis · Post by **scott curtis** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:42 pm

thats the new river

xtraheat · Post by **xtraheat** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:37 am

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:07 am

If you are going to run the NF of the Payette, drop me a PM. I'd like to watch, from shore, with a rope.

xtraheat · Post by **xtraheat** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:12 am

That would be quite intersting to watch... The rope would surely be put to good use!

Alden · Post by **Alden** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:52 pm

Man, the local boaters would eat that up if one of you guys ran the North Fork in an OC-1. You would drink for free that night (actually, scratch that, raft guides have no money). They rarely see canoes (C-1s or OC-1s) out there, even on the Main or South Fork, let alone the North Fork, so they think it's pretty cool.

Alden