I've noticed a couple of references to the 2x4 instructional method recently. As an instructor, I'm always looking for new perspectives on effective teaching. Can someone describe the 2x4 method to me?
Thanks,
Shep
2x4 instruction method?
Moderators: kenneth, sbroam, TheKrikkitWars, Mike W., Sir Adam, KNeal, PAC, adamin
-
marclamenace
- CBoats Addict
- Posts: 711
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:28 pm
- Location: Quebec, Canada
Andrew Westwood is the father of the 2x4 technique concept: Carole posted something on here a while back but when I go on their site myself I can't seem to find the 2x4 article anymore...
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7959933
Used to be there for sure.
Basically the idea is that by mastering the two strokes (onside and offside forward) you can steer your canoe on any side you want or go straight by playing with the 4 parameters: boat tilt, stroke lenght, stroke rate and shaft angle.
Definitely a great way to put the cab forward steering down in words for newbies.
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7959933
Used to be there for sure.
Basically the idea is that by mastering the two strokes (onside and offside forward) you can steer your canoe on any side you want or go straight by playing with the 4 parameters: boat tilt, stroke lenght, stroke rate and shaft angle.
Definitely a great way to put the cab forward steering down in words for newbies.
Watch out; that river has rocks on the bottom. 
Cool. that's a good start. It's definitely interesting to see ideas get invented in the slalom world and then slowly work their way into the river-running world. (Thinking of the Duffek, and my understanding of "Cab Forward" paddling) I would be more interested in hearing people's opinions on what the 2x4 method is in detail, and what "Cab Forward" means to people in terms of both technique and how that connects to hull design.
Thanks,
Shep
Thanks,
Shep
Trevor(Yukon), showed me a bit of it at the pool a wile back, it is sure look interesting and I'm sure it is realy efective for short boats. Mybe we should ask Paul to put a little video of the technique on paddlepointers.
As for cab fowerd, I always thought that it refer to the position of the paddler in a fishform hull like the spark, inferno etc.
As for cab fowerd, I always thought that it refer to the position of the paddler in a fishform hull like the spark, inferno etc.
-
busterblue
- CBoats Addict
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:31 pm
- Location: Ridgefield, WA
Is this the page you were looking for?Andrew Westwood is the father of the 2x4 technique concept: Carole posted something on here a while back but when I go on their site myself I can't seem to find the 2x4 article anymore...
http://westwoodoutdoors.ca/2010/02/24/c ... -westwood/
-
marclamenace
- CBoats Addict
- Posts: 711
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:28 pm
- Location: Quebec, Canada
Yeap, thanks! Didn't remember it was such a short summary: almost posted something longer myself!busterblue wrote:Is this the page you were looking for?
http://westwoodoutdoors.ca/2010/02/24/c ... -westwood/
Watch out; that river has rocks on the bottom.
That was interesting (albeit brief!) I am a big fan of Tom Foster's videos, so I definitely see the connection. My initial reaction is that the 2x4 technique is really for teaching beginners... In the past we might have focused on J-strokes and pries/rudders to the exclusion of steering with tilt, but I feel like this is the pendulum swinging too far the opposite direction. Obviously, for advanced canoeists, we can all agree that bow and stern corrections, in combination with using the boat edges, is all important, and the technique you use depends on the situation. (I can't imagine how you would teach surfing with only the 2x4 technique...)busterblue wrote: Is this the page you were looking for?
http://westwoodoutdoors.ca/2010/02/24/c ... -westwood/
Any thoughts/disagreements/flames?!?
Thanks,
Shep
A couple of bits to consider...
The 2x4 concept of paddling has it's uses as a drill to deepen the paddlers understanding of how the 4 elements of power, shaft angle, stroke position and edge can be used to control the direction on the boat. It needs to be combined with an understanding of a lot of other concepts to give 'complete control of the solo canoe'
Lets look at some other things to add into the 2x4 concept:
Corrections are often executed at the stern of the boat, cross forward sweeps do not always do the trick. In other words your offside stern quarter isn't very efficient, that's one of the reasons why we pry.
A well executed power/pry combination works a treat. I would challenge anyone to a race, they can use forward/cross forward combinations. I'll power/pry and we'll see who's momentum gets robbed!
The power of your forward strokes also needs to be varied.
Bow and stern trim has just as much effect on a turn as edge.
There are lots of other things!
I know the 2x4 concept isn't meant to be used alone but it doesn't give any context. Many paddlers take these kind of articles as absolutes, they are not. Add it to your paddling and use it to deepen your understanding of how things work.
Remember that paddling isn't a mathematical equation!
Kelvin.
The 2x4 concept of paddling has it's uses as a drill to deepen the paddlers understanding of how the 4 elements of power, shaft angle, stroke position and edge can be used to control the direction on the boat. It needs to be combined with an understanding of a lot of other concepts to give 'complete control of the solo canoe'
Lets look at some other things to add into the 2x4 concept:
Corrections are often executed at the stern of the boat, cross forward sweeps do not always do the trick. In other words your offside stern quarter isn't very efficient, that's one of the reasons why we pry.
A well executed power/pry combination works a treat. I would challenge anyone to a race, they can use forward/cross forward combinations. I'll power/pry and we'll see who's momentum gets robbed!
The power of your forward strokes also needs to be varied.
Bow and stern trim has just as much effect on a turn as edge.
There are lots of other things!
I know the 2x4 concept isn't meant to be used alone but it doesn't give any context. Many paddlers take these kind of articles as absolutes, they are not. Add it to your paddling and use it to deepen your understanding of how things work.
Remember that paddling isn't a mathematical equation!
Kelvin.
http://www.sweet-skills.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There once was a farmer, who sold his mule to another farmer. The mule didn't want to move, so, the farmer called the other farmer up. The other farmer came over, got a 2x4 out, and WHAM! whacked the mule over the head with the 2x4. 
Then the mule started to go to work. 'In order for the mule to work,' the farmer said, 'you must get its attention first.'
Then the mule started to go to work. 'In order for the mule to work,' the farmer said, 'you must get its attention first.'
The 2x4 method is a system of teaching beginners to paddle. It has been adopted by ORCKA and Paddle Canada for teaching whitewater canoeing. Andrew was involved in developing both these programs I believe.
If you have ever seen Tom Foster's video, you have seen it essentially. (or at least something very close)
In a teaching progression it is taught first to prevent the students from using stern strokes that kill momentum during ferries, eddy turns, etc. Later on, students are introduced to stern corrections. The 2x4 becomes the foundation upon which other strokes are added to develop skilled paddlers.
The technique really shines on technical rivers where maintaining momentum to make moves is essential. (and slalom courses)
If you have ever seen Tom Foster's video, you have seen it essentially. (or at least something very close)
In a teaching progression it is taught first to prevent the students from using stern strokes that kill momentum during ferries, eddy turns, etc. Later on, students are introduced to stern corrections. The 2x4 becomes the foundation upon which other strokes are added to develop skilled paddlers.
The technique really shines on technical rivers where maintaining momentum to make moves is essential. (and slalom courses)
First of all, I want to make clear I'm not willing to break down the 2x4 concept. It's good, it has it's place, but it's not the holey grale.
There are many external parameters influencing the carve of a canoe. Which in the end is the basics of the 2x4 principle.
The major problem with this principle as sole technique, is that there are situations you can't get out of a carve without stern correction strokes.
I still like the classic stern-pry approach for absolute beginners. Moving to the 2x4 technique is for those who want to progress in playfull paddling, from flatwater freestyle to whitewater paddling.
But hey, paddling is not an exact science. Luckily we have all different approaches. So new paddlers can find out what fits them best.
There are many external parameters influencing the carve of a canoe. Which in the end is the basics of the 2x4 principle.
The major problem with this principle as sole technique, is that there are situations you can't get out of a carve without stern correction strokes.
I still like the classic stern-pry approach for absolute beginners. Moving to the 2x4 technique is for those who want to progress in playfull paddling, from flatwater freestyle to whitewater paddling.
But hey, paddling is not an exact science. Luckily we have all different approaches. So new paddlers can find out what fits them best.
From a newer paddler's perspective, the 2x4 method is great. It's super simple and effective and, imho opinion, is the key to getting short, slow boats to work. No one said that you can't use a stern correction if needed but from reading the technique advice on this forum, the solution to most peoples problems is seldom more stern pries.
...
Yes, in my opinion this is the same "carving circles" onside and offside technique that Tom Foster has been advocating for many years.
I think it is a great technique with many applications especially on technical whitewater, and even flat water, but I agree with Kelvin and jakke's sentiments.
On big water, when you need to kick the bow of your boat back over toward your onside, a well-executed stern pry is at least 10 times more effective than a cross-forward sweep, at least in my hands.
But as has been said, correcting from the bow and correcting from the stern are not mutually exclusive. Both techniques can be used by the same paddler.
I think it is a great technique with many applications especially on technical whitewater, and even flat water, but I agree with Kelvin and jakke's sentiments.
On big water, when you need to kick the bow of your boat back over toward your onside, a well-executed stern pry is at least 10 times more effective than a cross-forward sweep, at least in my hands.
But as has been said, correcting from the bow and correcting from the stern are not mutually exclusive. Both techniques can be used by the same paddler.