solo/tandem boat

[tgb]

i'm looking at the esquif blast as a solo/tandem boat that i can take my kids out in class 1-3 ww. i'd appreciate any feedback from others who have used the blast. other considerations are the caption (if i could find one), or possibly even anoutrage x.
thanks,
trevor

[Guest]

Of the three boats, I think The Blast paddles solo the best. It is very different than the Outrage-X and the Caption, however. A lot of people don't like the Blast's hard edges and lack of tracking. You really have to be on top of the Blast on flat water. In white water, I find the Blast to be a lot more stable, forgiving and predictable than the Caption.

Mohawk makes atandem whitewater boat (Probe 14 maybe?) I haven't paddled it but suspect it is still in production, and if it is like the Probe 12, should be pretty well behaved.

You haven't mentioned how big you and your kids are - another option might be a Genesis, if you can get your hands on one, or if your kids are quite small, an Impulse.

Martyn

[tgb]

i weigh 230. my kids range from 70 to about 130. the blast seems like it could be ideal for doing solo or tandem. i did have a genesis about 8 years ago, but made the mistake of selling it. i agree that it has potential to be a good solo/tandem.
trevor

[sbroam]

I'm looking for something like that, too - I weigh about the same and I have two kids, smaller than yours, at least for now (45 and 60 pounds). I'm looking for something I can take them *both* out in. I asked about the Blast when I was up at the NOC last year and was told that it was best for lighter pairs and probably wouldn't work so well as an "OC-3". The guy I talked to (not sure of his name, but had outfitted their demo and instruction boats) didn't think there was really room in there for a triple saddle either, so the solo position would not be ideal. Unless I hear something to convince me otherwise, I'm probably going to take the Blast off of the list. [I *did* try the Nitro and the Detonator and liked them both]


Dagger no longer makes *any* WW open canoes (boo, hiss), so a new Caption is out. I have not paddled one, but had always heard that it was a good choice.

I don't think Mad River is making the Synergy anymore, so a new one is out of the running. I'd heard it was a more aggressive design than the Caption, which could be fun.


Mohawk still makes the Probe 14 which could be a good choice. There is a boater from Augusta, Georgia that I know that could do some pretty impressive things with it solo; he said it worked great with his daughter in there, too. From it's volume and cross section, it should handle my two kids OK. I've only paddled it solo and it was manageable for me. I'm leaning towards this one for now.

Scott

[Guest]

The Blast would be a little tight as an OC-3, but I suspect it would be possible. I have Mike Yee outfitting in mine with with the two saddles set pretty close together. I've paddled it solo from the bow and stern positions, and it handles a bit better from the stern. I think the saddles could be moved closer together, which would improve solo paddling, but might make for a bit close quarters when paddling tandem.

I'm not sure of the parameters in which you are working. There are going to definitely be compromises. If you can at all get two boats, then all three of you could paddle - two in a tandem and one in a solo. If you really only can justify one boat, either the Probe 14 or Blast are going to be compromises, and are very different boats. Have you paddled both of them? I suspect hte Blast will be better solo and the Probe 14 would be a better fit for OC-3 outfitting.

As for weight, may usual partner and I have a combined weight of around 350 lbs., and the boat behaves well. For the weights you were mentioning, I would stay away from the Genesis and the Impulse (top weight probably 300 lbs for both boats)

Good luck with the boat hunt.

Martyn

[NZMatt]

...would be a Mad River Rampage....these haven't been made in a few years, but I picked one up recently and I know there'sanother at Sacandaga Outdoor Center (bare hull and I know they want to get rid of it). I was thinking about trying to make this a solo/tandem boat, but decided I'd prefer to have a really solid tandem since my wife and I already have solos (FYI we weigh about 155lbs (me) and 105lbs). The Rampage is about the same length as the Blast and was the predecessor to the Outrage X.

I would say that if you want it to be an effective tandem, you'd have to have removable/adjustable saddles to be able to convert it to a solo - it's just too tight in there for three positions. I saw various styles of adjustable saddles at the slalom nationals and what I thought would work best would be saddles held down with straps through the foam (to provide the gross support for the saddle) and then with velcro underneath between the hull and the saddle to minimize small saddle shifts (a problem when just using straps). North Water used to make an adjustable track saddle, which I'm using in another outfitting job for my club, but they don't make them any more.

Another possibility would be the Mohawk 3 position saddle where the solo position paddles facing the opposite direction to the tandem setup - although the Blast and the Rampage are not symmetrical designs, so I don't know how well this would work.

With the Blast one of the interesting characteristics is the stability profile - that double chine gives it great secondary but it can feel pretty tippy on primary. Some people love this, and some hate it - it's fine for me in my Detonator, but my wife hates the feeling and prefers her Phantom. It's the same thing with the Detonator and Nitro, so you really should demo one of these before you buy.

Hope this helps

Matt

Note of the day- bow heavy boats just get worse when you run rapids. Be sure of your saddle positioning so you don't have to pull things out and redo them later

[Sir Adam]

I'd check out Kaz's boats as well. I learned (or attempted to ) on a prototype of what became the AC / DC, and there are several others that would make decent solo / tandem boats.

http://www.millbrookboats.com

[tgb]

i have looked at his site & he has really nice boats, but most of my boating (haw river in NC) is in a fairly rock stream bed. i'm not certain how the hull would wear since all of my experience is with ABS & polythelene boats. i would be curious to hear any feedback on their durability.

[Jim]

I recommend the Millbrook boats. Until last year I had only paddled plastic. Last spring I bought a Prowler from Kaz and I LOVE it.

It handles great solo. Soon after getting it I paddled to a local play spot that was running at a funky level. At that level it spits out short boats. All the yakkers were fighting to stay on the wave for a few seconds. I paddled down in my 15' boat, hopped on the wave for a 1 minute front surf, then peeled offf of the wave. There was a lot of head shaking. Note- I was 230 lbs at the time.

It also handles great tandem- I have paddled a lot with my son (about 75 lbs) and my wife (much more than 75 lbs, but I am not allowed to say how much). It stays VERY dry, and is VERY stable.

I am pleased with its durability. I have pulled a couple of moves that I had thought would break a glass/kevlar boat, and it just scratches.

However- if your rivers run low it may break your heart to run it against rocks. I have another Kaz design- a Howler- in plastic, from Mad River. It is the boat my son and I use for summer (low water) paddling.

Note- Kaz will customize your boat. I wanted a heavy layup on the Prowler and he knew I wanted to race it. He convinced my to get the standard layup and that was the right call. It has held up fine and I LOVE having a light boat when I get off the river.

I also had him place the outfitting. Installed, the cost was about what I figured I would have payed just to buy the saddles/kneepads/thigh straps somewhere else. I just told him the paddler weights and the seats were in place when delivered. I just needed to place the kneepads where I wanted them. He got it right- I had a great year racing with my son in the New England Slalom Series!

Summary- I am hooked and plan to buy all my boats and outfitting from him. It was a great deal for me.

Good luck,

Jim

[(O)C]

I've got a Blast, set up to convert solo/tandem, seats attached with Velcro. Our system finally wasn't great because you have to change thwart position. If there's a better system, great. I've paddled it solo at the rear position to do certain drops and other river situations and it works fairly well, except in headwinds, which can spin you around in a rapid (the solution is to keep on spinning). I'm looking forward to paddling it tandem with kids. While the Caption is (was) the Cadillac of tandem playboats and is a great tripping solo boat, after paddling the Blast we had to get one. You really need to paddle it because many people hate the feeling- I think that's too bad because they can't get adjust to the primary instablility and incredible responsiveness to reap the benefits. Check out the video from the Moose River on Esquif's web site.

(O)C

[yukon]

A great canoe that does not get much attention is the Clipper or Western Canoeing Merganser. I have had one for about 10 years and it is a lot of fun. tough lay up and works great tandem or solo. You can get a 3 position saddle.
Being a glass boat they are fast.

[Ed Leahy]

I have a Mohawk Probe-14 with a factory triple saddle that works well for me as an OC-2 with one child. We did a number of Chattooga 3 runs last year with no diffficulty. I think it would be pretty tight with a third person in it. I've taken 2 children down class 2-3 in my Mad River Explorer and that worked pretty well. I saw an Explorer for sale on Boater Talk Gear Swap recently. I think it is in NC.

[Scal]

The new Vertige X from Esquif is not is not out yet and not even on their site, but my friend has seen it at the Montreal Canoe and Kayak show and it is said to be like the Caption but better, much drier. It will be a great boat to paddle solo and Tandem and much more forgiving than the Blast. I have also talked to a guy in Peterborough who helps Esquif design their boats and he agreed with what my friend had said. It will be a neat boat, should look into it this summer when it will be out.