Got Speed?!?

[marclamenace]

I never understand when posts are made regarding speed of creeker c-1 converts,how much more do you need when creeking,the flow is enough with good timed strokes.

For me creeking and river running always means kinda like the same things, having around here mostly spring flooded small rivers as creeks. You do end up on low flow high gradient portions (read: rocky) often enough but big waves and holes are also part of the game so I want a C1 creek that can do them all tight moves boof hole punching etc. River attaintments hard-to-reach eddies and ferries are all part of it and in a slow boat you get pretty limited there. Love my remix exactly for that extra speed it has on an otherwise creeky type of hull.

[Craig Smerda]

Don't you guys use troughs, jets and waves to move about in the river... you know... gravity?

One of the hairiest ferries I've ever had to make was in of all boats a CUFly just above a mean nearly river wide hole... I couldn't get out or around it so I just worked my way up the eddyline above it a bit and got on a very small trough/wave that was just above the drop and surfed (cautiously) across to another trough and then one more trough to get on a narrow tongue that carried me past the hole. The CUFly isn't exactly a fast boat (duh!!!) and those low slung ends really like to dig in very easily (usually at the wrong time) but I got in all the troughs and let gravity do most of the work to carry me to the line I needed to be on safely.

That said... yeah... a little hull speed is really nice now and then but coming from someone that's been paddling short C1's and canoes for quite a while now... you learn to adapt to the boat you have and the shorter slower boats make you (imo) a wiser user of the river. I'm pretty lazy... I make the water and gravity work for me as much as possible.

[philcanoe]

Going to limit this to creeking even though you mentioned river runner (?), as it sounds like that was your inquiry...

To me it's more important how fast a creek boat accelerates and decelerates than it's over all speed. Yes - on a long day (mucho miles) speed is nice, but a simply fast boat could make for a long day (bad) also. With these short creek boats having rather limited hull speeds anyway, it's critical that a strong boater be able to get max hull speed very quickly. However the most absolute concern to me is control. It's not always agility, because too quick/fast/handling/hot (pick one) a hull for the paddler is really bad. I want only the hottest handling boat, that I can reliably handle when creek'n. For you that's going to be different that me, or the next guy who post.

So I guess my answer is both, but add that handling is more important to me than either speed or agility. With agility edging out speed when creek'n, because you must be able to make the move, even if done slowly.

[milkman]

Don't you guys use troughs, jets and waves to move about in the river... you know... gravity?

No, I use a 45HP Evinrude Outboard. Why do you ask?

[eddyhops]

My new creek boat-

[Craig Smerda]

it's not the about size... it's about knowing how to use it

[milkman]

Craig, great photo! How long have you been holding on to that waiting for just the right setup line?

[FullGnarlzOC]

Smerda is on the money. I feel for the most part, you don't need speed to get you around on the river. Water features such as waves, holes, and toungues; all act like 'turbo zones' if you think in terms of a video game. once you enter the 'turbo' zone at the angle, lean, and speed needed... it will send you on ur way, with limited strokes necessary.

You can watch someone in a fast boat fairy across a river/creek, not really using the troughs and waves...and then watch someone in a 9ft boat do the samething in a much slower boat, except they use the water to their advantage...and it looks much more effortless. Because it is.


Point being... with responsiveness, agility, and quickness a short/slow creeker OC1 can shred rivers just w/ water features alone. I also notice what Krikket speaks... The accel of the boat is related to how fast it can grab currents and water features. What I notice w/ the Maxim and it's hard edges is...it is very easy to engage water features w/ my lean. And because of it's accessability of using water features...it becomes a fast boat when all its performance is used.

For me - I find nothing more enjoyable than using the river to its fullest. Thats why I have always shy'ed away from longer, speeder boats ... such as the Ocoee, Viper11, Outrage, ect.... I feel like the speed acts like a crutch - allowing me to do moves much later, sloppyer, and more inefficient than if i were in a short boat.

A short, slow, and responsive boat causes you to rely on what arguably makes OC1ers better paddlers than their kayaking brethren - ability to use the water to your advantage - w/ utmost precision...because I'll tell you what, if you aren't precise hitting a cross-bow jet surf above a gnarly drop...ur gonna get wrecked.

besides... short creekers are much dryer. alot of it is because of the design. but another large reason they are dry is due to the lack of speed they have. Things are slowed down, so you can do what you need to do to stay dry - boof holes easily, avoid breaking waves, hittin 'wet' features w/ a precise angle to avoid getting wet. As opposed to a boat with speed, where for the most part ur moving forward at a faster rate of speed, and sideshifting stuff is much harder.

[FullGnarlzOC]

Is it any question that a short OC1 creeker is way more high performance w/ way more upside than a longer, stabler faster boat?

[jakke]

@Gnarlz,

Paddling a longer boat also has advantages. You have to line up earlier. Especially turning moves you have to plan faster and better in the longer boats. It only improves your technique in the shorter ones.

[Shep]

I don't think this is a discussion... I think this is one side of an issue being presented, the other side being presented in response, and some people ignoring the response.

Shep

[Longboatin]

Fg, I'm not sure u have any idea what u talkn about. The only boaters using the water to their advantage are short oc paddlers?

That is the biggest load a crap i ever hear!!!!

In fact, since we both think we each correct lets test it out this season on the Yough. U pick the level 2ft, 3ft, 4ft, 5ft, 6ft whatever. I'll bring an carry the beer. I can guarantee there moves that u an da maxim aint hangin wid me on. Plus we wont count attainment moves, cuz that would end it immediately.

Shoot me a pm, lets plan dis shid

[fez]

"longer, stabler faster boat" - why stabler ? why "more high performance"

The stability is defined by the with and the form of the bottom and not the length.
The performance is defined by the intended purpose of the boat.

[marclamenace]

The stability is defined by the with and the form of the bottom and not the length.

Sorry I have to disagree: for a same bottom design and given width a longer boat with less rocker will also get more stability (more of that same bottom actually touching the water.)

[ESP]

Tommy has it all wrong. All boats operate under the same laws of physics and the hydrodynamics interact with them accordingly. Mass, length of waterline, hull design, and paddle stroke placement and effectiveness determine how a boat will perform on a given water feature. Given only one variable, length, there can only be one result. The shorter boat will get into tighter places than the long boat, it will turn more quickly, and will have quicker initial acceleration. The long boat will take a few more strokes to get up to speed but will be faster. The velocity of the water, obstacles, and river features determine which design has the advantage on a given river. We all have more than one boat so we can have the correct tool for the conditions.