I don't want to put my stake in the ground, because I very well could be wrong, but the run definitely felt class V to me. I think it might have felt that way because rivers are hard in different ways just like rock climbs are hard in different ways. If it is class IV, it's still very different than some class IV runs I've done that felt completely comfortable (ref: Dryway and W. Branch of the Penobscot in my first post).
So back to my revelation in the middle of the thread... Right now I am running class III rapids right on my line that I pick and completely comfortably... Now I need to start playing those. More open-boat surfing in cl3 holes and rock boofing etc... And I need to take the cl4 runs I am doing comfortably and tighten up my lines considerably... Rerunning them multiple times to get it dialed (and still make it work when I'm tired)
Thanks,
Shep
Stepping it up (Quarter Gnarlz Style?)
Moderators: kenneth, sbroam, TheKrikkitWars, Mike W., Sir Adam, KNeal, PAC, adamin
Im confident in one trick poney moves (rocked the chatooga while a friend stuggled) but when the moves are comp[ounded and/or gotta do more react then plan, the heart beats faster. And not b eing in great shape I get winded faster. and my moves suffer.
Link your moves while parcticing and change up moves (we know you can hit eddy from river right but what about turning on that micro eddy and boofing in from the other side).
I've aslo got lots to work on in that department.
Link your moves while parcticing and change up moves (we know you can hit eddy from river right but what about turning on that micro eddy and boofing in from the other side).
I've aslo got lots to work on in that department.
Proud Yankee
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Craig Smerda
- L'Edge Designer
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:59 am
- Location: WaUSAu Wisconsin USA North America Earth, etc.
I feel I learned more about boat control and became better at reading/using water and using a rivers natural subtleties in general from Slalom than from anything else. Once a person masters boat control coupled with the ability to read water and you start stepping up in the various grades of water you tend to pick up all of the different nuances and techniques for running more and more difficult rivers. I truly believe slalom should be part of every beginning paddlers upbringing.
There's boaters out there I've seen capable in just a year or two of paddling that are "running the lines" but that aren't in my view capable of controlling their boats on anything other than "the line". Bracing and luckily fumbling down stuff doesn't count when moving into more difficult 'must make move' type of runs. People that only playboat seem to me to fit this role and they also seem sort've sketchy on more difficult rivers at times... they're generally fine when they end up in a hole but in some cases aren't competent of actually paddling around or through the hole. I sort've blame playparks for this and these type of paddlers rarely seem to explore the rest of the river other than what's right there at the "spot"... at least from what I've seen.
I don't mean to be painting with a broad brush or sound mean but honestly boat designs (kayaks mostly) have made it easier for people to go from a beginner/intermediate to running the hard stuff in a short amount of time... and not always with the proper fundamental skills to be doing it. Of course not all paddlers fit these bills... but they're pretty easy to spot once you get them out in unfamiliar territory.
If there's one thing paddling an open canoe will teach at the least it's how to catch and utilize eddys and the paths in and out of them... for whatever reasons we use them.
Oh well... I'm rambling...
There's boaters out there I've seen capable in just a year or two of paddling that are "running the lines" but that aren't in my view capable of controlling their boats on anything other than "the line". Bracing and luckily fumbling down stuff doesn't count when moving into more difficult 'must make move' type of runs. People that only playboat seem to me to fit this role and they also seem sort've sketchy on more difficult rivers at times... they're generally fine when they end up in a hole but in some cases aren't competent of actually paddling around or through the hole. I sort've blame playparks for this and these type of paddlers rarely seem to explore the rest of the river other than what's right there at the "spot"... at least from what I've seen.
I don't mean to be painting with a broad brush or sound mean but honestly boat designs (kayaks mostly) have made it easier for people to go from a beginner/intermediate to running the hard stuff in a short amount of time... and not always with the proper fundamental skills to be doing it. Of course not all paddlers fit these bills... but they're pretty easy to spot once you get them out in unfamiliar territory.
If there's one thing paddling an open canoe will teach at the least it's how to catch and utilize eddys and the paths in and out of them... for whatever reasons we use them.
Oh well... I'm rambling...
Esquif Canoes Paddler-Designer-Shape Shifter
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Craig Smerda
- L'Edge Designer
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:59 am
- Location: WaUSAu Wisconsin USA North America Earth, etc.
Y'all ever notice there aren't a lot of mid-stream eddies in a ww-playpark or in man-made courses? Just eddies on the sides... can't say as I've ever been down too many rivers that didn't have eddies or slackwater in other places than next to shore.
It's probably so people don't hit their heads while learning to roll...
It's probably so people don't hit their heads while learning to roll...
Esquif Canoes Paddler-Designer-Shape Shifter
Learning slalom and playboating are certainly good ways to learn necessary skills to run a river. Unfortunately for some folks slalom instruction and events are few and far between. When that is the case the concept of "catch every eddie, surf every wave" is a good substitute. Pick a challenging line and don't accept any deviation from the route or with the planned moves. Do it multiple times until it is second nature.
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FullGnarlzOC
- C Maven
- Posts: 1329
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:31 am
- Location: York, PA
Shep - Good to hear your coming off a FullGnarlz day! There are subtle differences between true class V, and class IV - mainly consequence. A Class V rapid may not be any harder of a move than a class IV - but if you screw up - you MAY be in a world of hurt - whether it be from MANK or WW Hazards(sieve, undercut, lethal hole, strainer, ect)
The best thing I can tell you is...if you like the way it felt to be 'on ur toes' and you like the feeling of "oh gee...i better not screw up"...then perhaps its time to step/jump into the realm of "Serious Steep Creeking" as you call it.
Things to work on? Go for eddys that you dont think you can hit...and do it all the time you are on the water, whereever you are at. Eddying is probably the most important WW Move that you can master for creeking. Superb eddying skills can/will save your life.
The second most imporant thing you should master for creeking is a roll. My SE Brothas may disagree with this because most the stuff in the SE - you just stand up. But it will hold you back from doing certain things/runs/waterlevels in the end. So I would say - Get a bombproof roll. You know it's bombproof when there is no doubt in ur mind that your gonna stick the roll if you bomb over somewhere (with that being said - things happen sometimes
)
By going for hairy ferrys, hard eddys, ect... you'll in turn be practicing your roll too. Because you WILL flip if you start pushing what you are capable of... and after all, thats how you get better.
The best thing I can tell you is...if you like the way it felt to be 'on ur toes' and you like the feeling of "oh gee...i better not screw up"...then perhaps its time to step/jump into the realm of "Serious Steep Creeking" as you call it.
Things to work on? Go for eddys that you dont think you can hit...and do it all the time you are on the water, whereever you are at. Eddying is probably the most important WW Move that you can master for creeking. Superb eddying skills can/will save your life.
The second most imporant thing you should master for creeking is a roll. My SE Brothas may disagree with this because most the stuff in the SE - you just stand up. But it will hold you back from doing certain things/runs/waterlevels in the end. So I would say - Get a bombproof roll. You know it's bombproof when there is no doubt in ur mind that your gonna stick the roll if you bomb over somewhere (with that being said - things happen sometimes
) By going for hairy ferrys, hard eddys, ect... you'll in turn be practicing your roll too. Because you WILL flip if you start pushing what you are capable of... and after all, thats how you get better.
Last edited by FullGnarlzOC on Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.gnarlzoutdoors.com
Silverbirch Canoes - North American Distributor
Email: tom@gnarlzoutdoors.com
Silverbirch Canoes - North American Distributor
Email: tom@gnarlzoutdoors.com
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FullGnarlzOC
- C Maven
- Posts: 1329
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:31 am
- Location: York, PA
The other thing that I suggest is - start really focusing on what the water is doing to ur boat in certain situations. A good OC-1 creeker has a great ability to use the water to their advantage.
and lastly - when u start 'serious steep creekin' you will screw up. there will be carnage. Try to minimize as much as possible. Learn from it. and always try to exercise good judgement.
But more than anything... and i'll be blunt about it. class V steep creeking is about balls and the ability to react under large amounts of pressure.
Congrats my man. Steep Creeking is another world for sure.
PS - U should be able to paddle class IV comfortably and dry before u consistently go for the clV goods. Forgot to mention how important it is for OC1 Creeking to have the ability to stay dry.
and lastly - when u start 'serious steep creekin' you will screw up. there will be carnage. Try to minimize as much as possible. Learn from it. and always try to exercise good judgement.
But more than anything... and i'll be blunt about it. class V steep creeking is about balls and the ability to react under large amounts of pressure.
Congrats my man. Steep Creeking is another world for sure.
PS - U should be able to paddle class IV comfortably and dry before u consistently go for the clV goods. Forgot to mention how important it is for OC1 Creeking to have the ability to stay dry.
http://www.gnarlzoutdoors.com
Silverbirch Canoes - North American Distributor
Email: tom@gnarlzoutdoors.com
Silverbirch Canoes - North American Distributor
Email: tom@gnarlzoutdoors.com
Nailing that roll is important. I don't have a bomb-proof roll either, and it's stopping, or at least slowing me down... .
Hitting hard lines on easy rivers is really valuable. I'm still mainly on class II-III. But I really want to play the river, hit the smallest eddies, surf the big waves and use wavetrains for ferries. And to that, I add stepping up to an extremer canoe: a prelude. For me that canoe extrapolates my mistakes. Very good to learn from! When I step back in my Viper11, paddling goes remarkably easier and with lots more confidence.
I've been in situations where I went down a class III-IV run where I had been paddling class II the days before, where other paddlers coming from class IV runs backed out halfway.
Don't please yourself with making your way down, but really paddle a river. And suddenly even a class II run can hold challenges! And pushing the limits - either skills or what's possible on the river - will tip you over and give a chance to work on that roll.
And as Craig mentions, slalom is really valuable as well.
And I also think you should give it time. You'll know when you're ready to step up. If you can split up a rapid in moves you've done before, then you're probably good to go.
For your experience: it's no surprise if you're stepping up, you have a drop back in skill/technique. There is simply too much around to focus - even without notice - on technique. Experience will bring you back up to your normal skill level.
Hitting hard lines on easy rivers is really valuable. I'm still mainly on class II-III. But I really want to play the river, hit the smallest eddies, surf the big waves and use wavetrains for ferries. And to that, I add stepping up to an extremer canoe: a prelude. For me that canoe extrapolates my mistakes. Very good to learn from! When I step back in my Viper11, paddling goes remarkably easier and with lots more confidence.
I've been in situations where I went down a class III-IV run where I had been paddling class II the days before, where other paddlers coming from class IV runs backed out halfway.
Don't please yourself with making your way down, but really paddle a river. And suddenly even a class II run can hold challenges! And pushing the limits - either skills or what's possible on the river - will tip you over and give a chance to work on that roll.
And as Craig mentions, slalom is really valuable as well.
And I also think you should give it time. You'll know when you're ready to step up. If you can split up a rapid in moves you've done before, then you're probably good to go.
For your experience: it's no surprise if you're stepping up, you have a drop back in skill/technique. There is simply too much around to focus - even without notice - on technique. Experience will bring you back up to your normal skill level.