C-1 design, feedback requested (long)

[Cone Bone]

I have been looking hard at the Wheelboy, and I want to test some perceptions that have lead me to that design.

I tend to run rivers in my Forplay. I play in the pool and on easier rivers in my Groove.

The Groove to too cool for words. Paddling it is like flying a small airplane through very thick air. If you can get your weight in the correct spot, you can make it turn, twist, dive or climb in any direction - up down, left, right - it will carve to where you are pointing it. On the other hand, you can fall over in any direction when you are in a rapid. It is kinda like riding a flat basketball down the river.

The Forplay offers more volume, and a way more stabile ride. I can pull enders and such in the Forplay, but I don't flip every 60 seconds in the Forplay like I do in the Groove. However, when I do flip sideways in the Forplay, it seems to happen faster in the Forplay than in the Groove. So, I think I could benefit from more side-to-side stability than the Forplay offers.

This is no surprise: Almost all current playboat kayak designs have a width of around 25". Designers of kayakers have found through trial and error that this is the best dimension for most paddlers, assuming that the paddler is on their butt in the boat.

Since C-1'rs all have a higher center of gravity than the typical kayaker, a design that is maximized for C-1 will need to have a width of more than 25". This seems to me to be an empirical fact. A survey of the few C-1 designs that are on the market indicates that the best compromise width is between 27" and 30".

(All this applies to the average size male paddler, which I suppose I am at 5'9" and 170lbs. Smaller paddlers may actually have the ideal conversion boat in many current kayak designs. hmm...)

Enter the Wheelboy. Plenty of volume for easy river running (50-some gallons,) short (6'6" overall) with slicey ends for maximum play potential, and the extra width (28") that I can't find in a converted kayak. This looks like a great thing to me.

Am I just being a gear-head?

Am I on the right track?

Comments?

[Sir Adam]

I'd say you hit it exactly Randy-and I REALLY liked the "flying small plane in heavy air" description of the Groove...that's the best description I've heard yet!

The only issue I see with the shorter length and a little more width is a further reduction in speed. I actually narrowed the Maven a bit (to 26", I think) in an effort to improve speed a bit. I decided a little less stability was worth it...we'll see what the final version looks like....

[Bruce Farrenkopf]

Cone Bone,
Sounds like your thinking is on the right track.
Bruce

[Larry Horne]

I agree completely and can't wait to try one of those things!

[Boise Bob]

If Marko ever manufactures the WheelBoy I will be one happy pup.

As for the WheelBoy's width, length, & volume, it all depends on how you'll use it. It's hull design balance of speed, float, and rocker should make for an excellent rodeo boat for those big waves and holes. Marko's floating hull design makes three transitions that should increase its speed -- most boats have two. The smooth bow-to-stearn surface does the same. The 6' 5" length facilitates those fast, steep waves & holes--allowing to boat to play the whole thing. The 56 gal volume is a good choice for the boat's size. The fact it's designed specifically as a C1 is the BONUS! I'm sure it can run a river too.

I currently use a Robson NRG, which is about 6' 0" long, 25.5" inches wide, and about 47 gal volume. It's a floating hull design with two transitions and it's not a smooth bow-to-stearn transition. It's an excellent boat in the retentive holes. It has trouble on big wave holes in both getting in and staying in-play. It's strictly park'n play. There are some excellent play spots near Boise, Idaho that I have a hard time getting on. A faster hull and more volume will to the trick.

My current plans it adding the WheelBoy to the quiver and keeping the NRG.

Come on Marko, make my day and deliver me a WheelBoy!

Bob

[Cone Bone]

Bob,

How much do you weigh? How tall are you?

[Boise Bob]

I'm 6' and 180 lbs.

The untimate WheelBoy test is to actually use one. To date, I believe only fiberglass prototypes exist. I don't know who is the plastic manufacture, type of plastic, and how the hull design keep its shape in plastic. The C1 pedastal doubles as a big-fat center beam and kneeling provides better weight distribution than sitting on your #$%.

Robson NRG Hull (stearn view)
http://playak.com/images/tripreports/ic ... C00085.JPG

WheelBoy Hull
http://www.cboats.net/recboats/wheelboy.shtml

Bob

[aldenb]

maybe some of the rodeo guys on here can answer this question:

Why don't top rodeo athletes use fiberglass rodeo boats in competitions rather than plastic boats?

I know that rodeo makes you very tired from throwing the boat around -- and I also know that there are special "comp weight" plastic boats for some of the top dogs.

But I also know that even these light plastic boats are still heavier than glass boats, and that a light boat would be a distinct advantage for endurance.

But why no glass boats? Is that illegal or something?

[the great gonzo]

Alden,

I think that the reason why all of the top rodeo boaters are paddling plastic boats is that virtually all of them are sponsored one of the big boat manufacturers, so they pretty much have to paddle a boat from their sponsor.

Since the big boat manufacturers all build plastic boats only and none of them builds composite boats, that's what the athletes have to paddle.

martin