12-step program for getting beyond class II - more tips?

clarion · Post by **clarion** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:52 pm

This is a fantastic thread. It should be given a place up front. Maybe as part of the "Just Getting Started?" thread section or something.

DougB · Post by **DougB** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:44 pm

Great idea Pat,

My two cents: Pick a safe spot to learn/progress it where the consequences of swimming are minimal to none. This way you can think about what you're doing rather than what you're going to do if you flip. On the Gull I'm never really comfortable above the Otterslide even though it's got good features for learning.

Otherwise it's just practice, practice, practice. Get in your 10,000 hours and your bound to be pro.

Post by **PAC** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:29 pm

One point about teaching I think often overlooked different folks learn differently..... in particular women and men usually need to be be taught via different approaches. "Usually" being the key word here.

I'll let others expound on what exactly that statement means!

kimmieOC1 · Post by **kimmieOC1** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:19 am

Boaterchick Festival was started for that very reason. I'm not sure if I know how women learn differently. I didn't know any other women paddled OC1 my first 5 or 10 years of paddling.

But I do know that most women approach stepping it up or paddling a new river at the top of their level a little different than most men.

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:34 am

philcanoe wrote:
The third thing is to only take instruction from someone who can actually perform what you desire. This is not the time and place for the theoretical, to accept the 'I've been told' or 'in instructors work shop we did it like this'. You wouldn't accept it from a hanging gliding or scuba diving instructor, but it's become all to common in canoeing. While it's real easy to follow someone down a river. You really want to learn technique from the best possible boater available. While some people will rise above on their own, the majority of people will suffer from a Class II paddling instructor. Their point of reference will be too small, their (inferior) technique will be emulated, and their grasp of what can be done too limited. I bring up point of reference, because they'll only be able to teach the limited amount they know (one method)... while what the student is doing (although different) may just need some simple modification. You may even hear things like, this a real class III, when in fact it really wasn't. Good instruction is less about recreating the instructor, and more about making the most of what's at hand. A very good instructor told me once, that he see's group after group were everyone is emulating the same style as the alpha-boater in the group. That his form became emulated and reinforced, en lieu of something which might be better. I swap hands and cross stroke - should you?

I just wanted to reinforce this point

jakke · Post by **jakke** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:04 am

WOW, I'm happy if I make it to 20 days of paddling on something that can be considered more or less serious whitewater

.

I second the point that you should take instruction from a paddler who can actually run the stuff you're aiming for. Even if your target is class IV, it's good to take instruction to step up to class III from a paddler that's running class IV or even V. Most of them use techniques and have skills you want to know, but instructors that only go up to class II or III don't have.

2 more tips for improvement:
- go extreme; take a more extreme canoe. Go for a paddle on your familiar runs in a zoom, prelude, maxim, ... .
- sidesurfing is great for improving boat feeling, develop a roll and so on. But don't forget offside-side-surfing. It adds for a great deal of boat balance, tilt and a bomber offside-stroke!

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:28 am

And I think that's part of our problem in BC (in addition to cold, continuous rivers)... as Craig alluded to, not every region has a wealth of patient, inspiring instructors who paddle class IV. Despite the impression one would get from reading c-boats.net, in the big picture not that many canoes paddle class IV. We barely have any active ww instructors at all around here, nevermind up-to-date, progressive class IV-V instructors! And I'm sure we're not alone in that.

Anyway, whether it's class II to class III or class III to class IV, and regardless of the instruction available, there's lots paddlers need to take upon themselves so that they can step up - my whole point with the article was that instruction/skills can only get you so far - after a course it's up to you where you apply those skills! And there's been lots of great points added to my original list.

Thanks, Pat.

Yukon · Post by **Yukon** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:46 am

Pat there is a part of not many aspiring Grade 4 and up instructors is there is such a small market. Most paddlers are relucantant to take courses after they become an intermediate paddlers and most course formats will not show the same kind of results as newbies. As one progress they need a coach not a weekend course. . I tell my students paddling is like learning to play music. It is a on going combination of coaching, time on the water and desire to push oneselves. Most dont paddle near enough. If people really want to jump up their skills they need to be paddling 4-5 times a week. It is one reason kayaking is more popular as it more forgiving for the weekend warrior who does not put in the time to get.
Maybe I should move my school to the lower mainland. Way more great rivers to teach on and and 10000 times the # of people

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:52 am

10,000 times the people, yet fewer canoes!

You know it's spring in Whitehorse because one day the roof racks on every car sprout canoes, you don't see that here.

P.

fez · Post by **fez** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:27 am

#13: read "Thrill of the paddle" over and over

Pierre LaPaddelle · Post by **Pierre LaPaddelle** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:18 pm

yarnellboat wrote:I think that's part of our problem in BC ... as Craig alluded to, not every region has a wealth of patient, inspiring instructors who paddle class IV. We barely have any active ww instructors at all around here, nevermind up-to-date, progressive class IV-V instructors. . .

Great initiative, Pat. Thanks for getting this thread started.

Certainly BC geography imposes some major challenges.

For me, in mid-province, the self-imposed "rut" I was in wasn't just about the river -- it was also about the road. The BIG difference started to happen when I made the commitment to travel -- to hook up with y'all on the coast, or with the valley boyz, or with the guys in K'loops.

During the last 12 months, I've paddled more new rivers, and met more great paddling mentors, and challenged my skills more, than I'd done in the preceding 10 years. Our weekend clinic in April with The Great Gonzo involved 10 - 12 hours of windshield time for 10 - 12 hours of quality instruction -- and it was well-worth every minute.

Have boats, MUST travel.

Rick

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:17 pm

Fez is right. #13 - read 'TotP' over and over.

Jakke has good point too. If your looking to improve grab urself an advanced boat. When I say advance - key features are - hard chines, and no initial stability - so Prelude or Maxim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iXP9yoc4VY

"Any other questions?!"

Shep · Post by **Shep** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:17 pm

Yukon wrote:Pat there is a part of not many aspiring Grade 4 and up instructors is there is such a small market. Most paddlers are relucantant to take courses after they become an intermediate paddlers and most course formats will not show the same kind of results as newbies. As one progress they need a coach not a weekend course. . I tell my students paddling is like learning to play music. It is a on going combination of coaching, time on the water and desire to push oneselves. Most dont paddle near enough. If people really want to jump up their skills they need to be paddling 4-5 times a week. It is one reason kayaking is more popular as it more forgiving for the weekend warrior who does not put in the time to get.
Maybe I should move my school to the lower mainland. Way more great rivers to teach on and and 10000 times the # of people

I have taught at two of the annual WW schools that the Arkansas Canoe Club has put on, and I am frustrated by this same phenomenon. Every year we fill 13-15 sections of 4-6 kayakers evenly split between beginners and intermediates, and we struggle to get three sections of 3 OC-1s. I know of at least 5 or 6 OC-1 paddlers in this part of the state who have gone to a single WW school and said "Yeah, great, got it. Don't need to do that again." I have volunteered to be part of our state education committee with the #1 goal being to convince people (canoeists) that training/coaching/instruction is something you keep doing as long as you have any desire to improve. I am from the skiing/snowboarding school of instruction, where coaching sessions for intermediate skiers are pretty common.

So, new question for the masses: what kinds of "clinics" do you think would attract advanced beginner or intermediate canoeists? I have though about "Paddling like a slalom racer" or a "short-boat" clinic.

Shep

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:19 pm

To elaborate on my post - Short boats with very low initial stability and harder chines are the best way to 'feel the water'.

You can better yourself in class II/III through a stable boat to a certain extent... then if you'd rather stick around at the level to improve, rather then going up in danger - switch to a boat that will make you learn more.

Hard chines and low initial make it so you NEED to focus on the little elements of moves. Elements like 'leaning downstream' during peel-outs and ferrys, or leaning inside on ur eddy turns.

Having a short boat will further develop an intermediate's strokes and reaction time.

...for me personally, I know moving to the Maxim full-time has caused me to become fluent and seamless in my water reading skills and judging currents. It was also caused me to improve power, finesse, and balance tensfold. I have yet to hit a plateau and I have the Maxim to thank for that.

I'm at the point where I firmly believe that 90% of paddlers can improve their skills tremendously just by paddling a Maxim or Prelude on their slightly less than challenging runs.

"If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball"

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:31 pm

Shep just start a "Paddle like a Pro" clinic - stress the importance of 'grace and power'.

I haven't taken any 'clinics' or anything like that in this sport, so i dont know how much instructors focus on the mental aspect... but more so with WW canoeing than some other sports... the mental game is 80% of it... learning to match the intensity of the water, and don't half arse ur strokes when making moves.

Improving a paddlers mental game is in my opinion, just as important as improving ones physical skills.

... sorry I keep flooding this topic w/ post - I just have alot to say regarding the subject of improving paddling performance. I think that's something that we as a whole (center of the C-boats universe) can improve on and should improve on...in order grow the sport to new heights, and numbers.