Seat height?

[hammerhead]

I have a C-1 Atom w/ a seat height of 6 & 3/4 ". I am fairly comfortable & I stay upright most of the time(river running & waves). Holes have been a challenge, as I often flip about 50% 0f the time. My roll is not "bombproof" by any means, w/ about 50% completion rate. I was wondering if seat height is a factor in rolling. My outfitting is pretty tight & my technique needs work, but I was wondering if being more in the boat or out of the boat would change things(?). Some do say it looks like I am standing up in the boat due to a high seat height. The only other boats I have tried rolling are; Cascade, Critical mass conv & a LL Session conversion. These boats have been easier to roll.

ps. Sorry for the length of post, I did do some research on the forum prior to this, but it wasn't covered much & this is very important to me.

[Smurfwarrior]

I find that the lower I am in the boat, the more I'm able to transfer hipsnap energy to the boat. Feels like I have to expend more effort to get the boat under me with a higher saddle. B

[philcanoe]

From my limited experience in a C1, it seems that the higher a saddle is, the further you have to reach up. Just in order to get paddle on or near surface. Otherwise you start off with to deep a paddle angle, and the roll quickly deteriorates.

The difference between rolling my Spanish Fly and a C1 with 10 inch saddle was remarkable. In the C1 I had to reach overhead, with paddle blade, and lever my low hand out away from me (just to get blade up high - once in roll position). While in the Fly it's always pretty much just get straight out, hip snap, and sweep body forward. Imagine it's because a canoe full of water sets a whole lot deeper, than a C1 with exact same height saddle.

So just guessing... that you might try noticing your reach for the top.

[sbroam]

If my seat is too low, my feet go to sleep and I get cranky, when I'm cranky, I don't surf well nor roll well. You should be able to overcome an inch, maybe two of saddle height in your roll *and* be comfortable. I just upped my Remix seat to 8" because I decided I should be as comfy there as in the SF.

[gumpy]

i don't think 6 3/4" is unreasonable at all. rolling the atom is like rolling a dinner plate. it's far more dependant on good hip snap than rolling most open boats. improve your technique or get an easier rolling boat.

[Larry Horne]

in a c1, i don't think seat height has any effect on rolling UP. but it definately effects rolling DOWN.

[xmas0c1c1k1]

I went quite low in my creek boat for a while and had a lot of trouble rolling i wasn't able to swing my body over the bow when i came up. I think 6 3/4 is within a safe range of "normal" i go with about a 5 inch saddle now

[sbroam]

Oops, make that 9". I'll find out how that works on the water today or tomorrow.

I'd propose that if you are having problems with your roll at 6 3/4", look at other aspects of your outfitting. How secure are you? are your knees lifting? your butt? How are your roll mechanics?

We all do have different body geometry and roll mechanics, so there is no one answer...

[hammerhead]

Thanks to all for the input, I think I will work more on my technique & tighten up my outfitting. I would love to change boats, but that's not in the cards. Peace...

[caverdan]

Just converted an old Dagger Response, and my wife (5'8" ~120lbs) finds it stable and fun with a 7" saddle height. I however, (5'9" ~200lbs) find it very tippy. The beam width is pretty narrow on the boat, so I'm wondering if there's any point in lowering the seat to make it more stable for me, or just give it up to her or another smaller/lighter paddler as-is. How much stability can I expect to gain by going down to 5"?

[Silent Bob]

2" can make a pretty big difference, particularly in a boat that's inherently narrow/tippy. At one point I converted a Perception Super Sport. I started with about a 7-7.5" saddle and it was darn near impossible to stay upright. Whacked it down to about 5" and it was a totally different boat- really easy to roll and relatively stable. Most of mine seem to end up in the 6" range.

-Bob

[sbroam]

I don't remember exactly when it was that they started making kayak hulls wider than 23", but that day was probably the death of the factory made C-1. My 27" wide Remix can tolerate 2" added to the saddle (felt awesome in the pond today - moving water Wednesday?) - but an older 23" wide boat like a Response, Super Sport, or my old Whiplash - uh uh.

[C1 8.1]

Lower your seat 3/4 or 1 inch. It will make a difference in many places. It may also throw off your outfitting a bit. But you can adjust that. The lower seat will feel different against your backrest as well. Try lowering your seat again if you feel comfortable with the initial 3/4 or 1 inch drop. Personal opinion is the lower the better. Stability will improve. You should be tighter as your backrest will be pressing more space.

I think you will feel more snug in your boat and your roll will benefit. Having said that, your roll is much more about hip snap and head down.

Paddle a Super Fun at 4 3/4 and a Nomad 8.5 at 5''.

[caverdan]

After the advice here, and calculating a bunch of semi-scientific mumbo-jumbo concerning a woman's center of gravity versus a man's, the 23.5" beam width of the Response, the price of minicell foam, and other variables, I figure if I cut it down an inch and a half it'll be about right, so I'll start with about 3/4" off the seat height and try that, then go on down to about 5.5" total height. If that doesn't make it feel more stable, I'll hand it over to somebody it does feel stable to, and chalk it up to gaining experience making c-1 conversions.