Most Economical Winter Paddling Clothing?

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:16 pm

What's the cheapest way to be safe (not hypothermic) paddling an OC-1 year-round? I want to paddle this winter in WNC but the ad for a USED drysuit at just under $500 is discouraging.

I have a 5mil full wetsuit from my surfing days but I've heard that it's a poor choice because of wrinkles and once you're cold and wet you're staying cold and wet.

All advice appreciated.

Shep · Post by **Shep** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:24 pm

My $0.02:

A functional drysuit is really the safe alternative. If you decide to paddle something where it is easy to bail-out, and there is no risk of losing your boat, a complete change of clothes double-bagged inside a drybag could be a reasonable option. If you start to get hypothermic and can't safely continue paddling, grab your change of clothes and hoof it out.

This is all based on some worst-case assumptions... i.e. you want to paddle rivers that have a at least a moderate risk of making you swim when it is 45 degrees and overcast. If you want to paddle in January, but are willing to wait for 60 dgrees and sunny, and then paddle something that you won't possibly flip over in, then obviously the risk is lower.

Shep

Post by **sbroam** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:41 pm

How far north are you and how cold tolerant are you?

For the first 20 or so years of my paddling career, I made due with poly-pro layers, paddling pants, dry top, etc. I added neoprene pants a couple of years ago. I got wet some, but never hypothermic. That's being hot natured and in the southern Appalachians. I also tried a set of Kokatat dry bibs - warm, dry, not convenient...

Last year I bought a Stohlquist suit - it's awesome. It's easy to stay warm and dry - heck, I occasionally paddle in street clothes. Its a confidence booster, too. Yeah, it was pricy compared to the individual pieces of my old set up, but "en toto" not that bad. I figured it cost about as much as I would spend on a good second hand boat - I didn't buy any boats that year.

So, wait a bit, you can probably find a used suit cheaper. The Stohlquist suit is a good deal (Waldens Ridge has them for the best price I see). Or, layer up...

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:48 pm

Most people who paddle cold water eventually get a drysuit, and they look back and say "why didn't I do that earlier!".

Either used or on clearance you should be able find something for about $300? That's the most affordable way for real comfort & safety - you may need to go non-breathable, no relief zip, no booties, but try to get a drysuit ASAP, you won't regret it!

Pat.

Post by **sbroam** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:52 pm

In descending order of priorities for me :

relief zipper - no relief zipper can mean a 15 minute pit stop
feet - not just comfortable, but speeds gear up/down
breathable - I sweat a lot, I frequently outproduce the fabrics capacity. It is nice when it works.

Todhunter · Post by **Todhunter** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:13 pm

yarnellboat wrote:Most people who paddle cold water eventually get a drysuit, and they look back and say "why didn't I do that earlier!".

Either used or on clearance you should be able find something for about $300? That's the most affordable way for real comfort & safety - you may need to go non-breathable, no relief zip, no booties, but try to get a drysuit ASAP, you won't regret it!

Pat.

I couldn't agree more. My drysuit is my most important piece of gear - it doubles the paddling season to year-round, and lets you paddle when there is rain (the cold months). I would sell a boat to get one if I had to. It's one of those "buy once cry once" situations. You've really picked the wrong time of year to look for a deal on one though!

kaz · Post by **kaz** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:43 pm

But, to keep things economical, neoprene works.

JK

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:28 am

Thanks for all the responses. If I were half of me, STP has some great deals on dry clothing. Oh well. Any other good outlet-style websites with paddling gear? I checked EMS, REI, STP, and BCO.

I'm in WNC, and I hope to paddle the Watagua, the Elk, and Wilsons above the gorge this winter. Maybe I need to wait for the first really cold day and put on my wetsuit and go jump in some flatwater close to my car, paddle around and see what happens.

avlclimber · Post by **avlclimber** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:40 am

Hey, John.

Good to see you'll be getting out this winter...

Don't be fooled by drypant/drytop separates. They will never be really dry in a canoe unless you stay upright. More than anything they hold the water in, and at best act as a great wind and splash layer. Drypants are awesome for cold water and sunny days. Drypants and a t-shirt while the kayakers are suiting up three layers deep is where it is at.

However, I may be upgrading to a drysuit for actual winter paddling as well this year-- for challenging conditions and a true dousing, there is a lot of security in taking a cold water swim in a drysuit and not popping up exhausted, wet, and hypothermic.

NRS has good clearance prices; this spring there were a few display models in the $3-400 range. Right now they have two goretexish models in the $500 range, and their customer service and repair situation is pretty good. They are also running some kind of 10% reward program. A friend has had the NRS Extreme for 6 months and seems pretty happy with it. Also, GAF is a possibility this weekend..

My bladder and I can't imagine not having a relief zipper.

Happy paddling! Get "Sandy Bear" out on something gnarly!

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:04 am

Hey Z,

Small world/big room, huh.

That's good info about the separates. I just can't eat 5 bills right now, but man I've got the fever.

We expect to see you this fall for a wet weekend. I'm going solo in the Disco 169 Saturday.

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:08 am

If you're staying upright neoprene is fine & economical. Check dive shops, sometimes they sell their rental suits cheap. Wet suits work by your body heating the water in the suit & maintaining that warm water layer. The problem w/ that is rolling in current flushes out that warm water & replaces it w/ cold river water (which you have to heat back up).

Drysuits are very expensive (I've paid more for only one of my boats than I paid for my suit). Go with a wet suit if that's what the budget allows (it'll be better than flanel). Save up for a suit.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:01 am

Sure I have to have a drysuit now, but that wasn't always the case.... there's been plenty of days of kicking free the frozen ice, from a canoe stored outside before going boating.... and those days in neoprene were mighty fun too... just consider it building character.

Post by **sbroam** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:00 am

Yes, neoprene is economical and it works, but... I wouldn't want neoprene on my top half and you have to me mindful of how thick it is on your bottom half so your feet don't turn blue.

The old stand by recommended beginning kayaker set up is a farmer john + paddling / dry top. That can be pretty dry because they have the spray skirt helping mate the two halves.

If you are mindful of how you mate lower and upper halves, you can make pants work, stay reasonably dry and be more comfortable. With a dry top, tuck your lower layers in to the spray tunnel - most paddling pants are long waisted for that purpose. I augmented that with a neoprene back brace - just a 8" wide belt of neoprene with velcro. THe last time I took a lengthy swim with that set up, my legs got wet, probably due to loose ankle seals and my leg layers got soggy - I was cold for a bit, but almost as important, it affected my swimming. I borrowed some neoprene pants the next day - much better. That was when I added those to my wardrobe - still got a little wet, but no floppy fleece.

The bibs came next - latex ankle gaskets and the tunnel for mating to a drytop made that *very* dry, but as noted - made for long pit stops. I sent it in and had a relief zipper added. The fit on this is marginal for me but I'm using it with the kids now.

Acosi151 · Post by **Acosi151** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:22 am

You can find "surf" and "sailing" brand drysuits on online auction sites for a lot less than "kayak" brand drysuits.

I OC1 so I don't need a double tunnel wrap. My drysuit says O'Neill and cost me about $150

That said, I would give-up my fancy paddle for an aluminum raft paddle (+$150), water helmet for a skateboard helmet, (+$90), sump system (+$70), wear sneakers instead of water boots (+$90), wear a regular vest instead of a rescue (+$100) and drink a little less beer ($priceless) before giving up my drysuit.

What's that add up to? $500? For a good drysuit that is a good deal!

amollohan99 · Post by **amollohan99** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:41 pm

I started more serious ww c in Northern VT. My gear consisted of "mohawk" paddle, 17' penobscot, multi-layers of polypro/wool, covered in rain gear. We paddled from Marchish to sometimes late Nov. Otherwise, used drytop with poly layers, used drypants with poly layers. I find that even when I fall in the drink, as long as I continue paddling, I retain bodyheat.

Drybag with change of clothes is always a good idea.