Holding your line in heavier water?

TommyC1 · Post by **TommyC1** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:21 am

I (Outrage OC1) paddled the Contoocook http://www.americanwhitewater.org/conte ... l/id/1167/ yesterday with Patrick O'Hanlon(Nitro OC1) and some local kayakers. It was a hair over 8' which is 6" higher than I've run it before. It was noticably faster.
Pat and I scouted S Turn and Freight Train. The lines were mostly the same as at 7'.
S turn ran as I expected as I made the left turn nice and high.
Freight Train was a whole 'nother smoke. From the lead in to the first drop I was buffeted in all directions. I spent most of my time trying to point the boat where I wanted to go and not near enough time actually going there. I stayed close enough to my lines that I cleared all of the holes. But about half way down I did hit a Rooster Tail that I was trying to avoid. That got me about 1/3 full and made staying up as big an issue as course correction. (Yeah an electric bilge pump would have been nice right there) It really was luck as much as anything that got me to the bottom upright. I was truly a leaf in the water.

It looked to me like Pat had an easier time of it in the Nitro, especially once he gave up following my bad lines.

So I'm thinking maybe I should have accelerated sooner and harder to get ahead of the current? Once I got into it I found accelerating quite difficult. Other than that I can only think I'll need to do that more often to get used to it.

Any suggestions?

Edited to add: Patrick feel free to chime in. Especially if you saw me doing something dumb. I got no pride to worry about and it went by so fast I may have missed something that should have been obvious.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:19 am

Owing to insufficient input

as to exactly what went on... a video.

In my experience the line is not one move, but a sequence of events performed during and in regard to space and time (IE. relative). So which elements of your line were you not happy with? The spin, the ferry, your lean, boat angle, paddle placement, and so on, and so on...

However in general the more powerful the water:

The more critical it is to use ferry's, and that their angle be ultra precise. Keeping the boat straight in line with the current, is often the last thing to do. AND only a temporal condition, which is merely linked to the next move. For it only allows you one way to go, and requires a move to change from, before heading into beginning the next move.

That moves be made well in advance, much like skiing moguls. So you're like three moves ahead, and performing desired predetermined motions, while looking for the move after the next. And like moguls, look while high up on the wave tops - where your vantage point is greater (enhanced).

It's often beneficial to us exaggerated sweep strokes. One's that are a bit deeper, than needed on slack water. And moved them a little further out from center, to gain more leverage on the moment arm.

To make corrective strokes (and directional changes) on wave tops, where less water is interacting on the boat. This becomes way more critical, as the power is ramped up. A sweep on the apex of a wave for instance, might setup a diagonal line down, and then another, and so on.

I also find it beneficial to match boat length to the period of wave length. Meaning to keep boat angled, so as to fit in between wave tops. And not spanning into one wave, into the next --or- from the preceding. This alone will help keep you much drier, and we all know a dry boat - is a happy boat.

And although to some this may sound contrary advise. I find that control is gained by either going faster than the flow, or slower than the flow. And not really gained, by going at the same rate (as current). So (IMHO) as it's easier to slow down, than it is to go faster-than-fast.... I choose to (back?)ferry, spin, float sideways, s-turn, make diagonals down backside of waves, and back paddle around in order to slow down. Think about all those playboat moves which work, and use them to slow down. An remember even a failed surf will slow you down, as will a partial one.

(sorry no time for more -or- less

or proof read

... off to work)

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:32 am

Getting to where you want to go in heavy flow - set your angles to account for the flow - so when u are working a move - the flow doesnt blow you offline from the get-go because angle was misjudged for the current speed

Secondly - short, quick, and vertical on the strokes. In heavy current, the amount of time you have for strokes is significantly reduced vs the time you have on the same rapid, when the water is lower.... so you want to make each and every stroke count as much as you can - efficiency and quick powerful burst for strokes.

Lastly - you brought this up in your posts - but its generally a good idea to try and be one stroke ahead of what you are trying to do - as you'll most likely lose the 'edge' you have on the move you are trying - due to current and minor human error - which is hard to avoid 100% of the time - so plan for it and get there 'ahead of time'

TommyC1 · Post by **TommyC1** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:29 pm

Sorry got no vid. Maybe I can describe it better.
Freight Train starts with a few smaller holes and waves leading into the first drop. From there the water was very turbulent and I was having trouble keeping the boat pointed where I wanted to go.
The first drop has a large rock on river right and a large hole on river left. Ideally I'd run center right and eddy out below the large rock. Even at lower levels I've yet to make that eddy but there are a few more on the right below that I can usually catch. This time I was not able to get over to any of those eddies.
Below the first drop there are several waves left to center. Sunday those were curling back on themselves, rooster tails. Below those is another hole left to center and a smaller hole right center.
There I hoped to stay right of the rooster tails and run between the holes. I hit the second rooster tail sideways and took on some water. I was digging hard to get right of the bigger hole. Then I got shoved far right but to low to catch the eddys. I got right around the smaller hole and along the pillow of another large rock coming out from the right shore back to center. From there I was finally able to get into an eddy on river right and dump the boat. After that there was only a bit more rapid before a pool which went OK.
I think it's the turbulence that is messing me up and turning the boat faster than I can recover from.

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:59 pm

i'm not an expert on big water, but have learned that you need to relax in between moves and not fight it constantly.
where a move at low flows will take two strokes, the same move at high water may take 8. so i try to relax when i can and make occasional powerfull moves to get where I need to be. a good thing to remember is that the bigger the flow, (usually) the fatter the lines, but you do need to work hard and be determined to get to those nice fat lines.

good examples in my favorite vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuOs_sMDckY&
especially the line starting at 4:05

Cheeks · Post by **Cheeks** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:05 pm

I found on the only big water that I've paddled - Lower Gauley, I had my biggest success when I tried to get ahead of the water, meaning I knew where I wanted to go and I tried to get there early. The speed of the water and the strength of the current usually erased the gains and I would arrive where I wanted to go.

And when it doubt, keep it fast and straight and boof everything, waves, holes, drops, etc. Matching the intensity of the water helps me keep my hips loose and my stroke rate up.

*YMMV - Better paddlers feel free to tell me why I'm wrong.

PatrickOC1 · Post by **PatrickOC1** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:28 pm

I tried following Tommy's line through Freight Train I think I was saved by rushing tryng to catch up so I could see where he was going, as I was powering foreward my thoughts slowly shifted from "Man this guy has a very unorthadox paddling style" to "Why am I following him again?".

At which point I was hitting the roostertail that filled him up, Ive come accustomed to using forward strokes up the face of big waves then low bracing down the back side, which worked in this case I knew I was going over had I tried to cross and get out of the waves so I pushed foreward and just rode em out. suprisingly dry as compared to what I had expected.... Caught an eddy across from where tommy had stopped and dumped the three or four inches of water out of my boat I ended up real close the last hole and was swung left by the back current thats why i ended up on the other side....

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:54 pm

I just do lots of little ninja strokes to get me where I'm going, not the best vid but 5,000 cfs.

http://s794.photobucket.com/albums/yy22 ... elflip.mp4

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:35 pm

Lot's of good suggestions already...

I'm with Phil... slow it down or turn it up when need be and in big water "Hey diddle diddle... right down the middle!!!" doesn't usually work... also practice finding/using the occasional slack water and/or eddies to slow you down if need be. There's a good reason to practice eddy turns and peelouts and when you get on big fast water you'll soon realize exactly how good your's are. Sometimes hitting waves or holes that won't keep or hold you a little sideways helps break things up and at times they might be used to actually steer you where you need to git.

One last thing... and that's surfing... I can think of more than a few times I've had to break down a rapid by catching an eddy above a route or line I didn't want to be on and surfing across a wave to get to a different spot in the river to continue my descent... to me in big water I see this as a necessary skill. Yes my friends... surfing can actually be a life saving skill.

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:41 pm

A huge issue that I havent seen addressed yet is group dynamics. I paddle 99% of the time with butt boaters, leading quite a bit and that seriously compounds the issue when you can't throw certain moves without jaming up everyone behind you.

Wiggins · Post by **Wiggins** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:21 pm

I find that in heavier water I want to stay on my onside more, and have to fight the urge to avoid offside strokes even though I know they will give me a lot more momentum. When you are making moves keep paddling on both sides of the boat.

Learn to use the foam piles on breaking waves and (ideally) friendly holes to bounce your boat off of them and propel you where you want to go. I find that by hitting them at an angle with momentum I can often side slip around whatever I am trying to avoid.

Don't just have a plan to hit "the line." Have back up plans for what you will do and where you will go all along your line through out the drop.

Get comfortable paddling your boat down drops backwards. Sometimes it is better just to back paddle than it is to take the time to turn around. Also get used to running rapids swamped.

Kyle

Post by **PAC** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:27 pm

IMHO its about reading water! Watching what its doing on the surface and trying to understand whats going on just under the surface and down deep ...
Then make a plan (how to get from point A to Point B - which usually involves points C, D and maybe E for an OC) while having back up point in you're mind (X, Y and Z).

Some times there is only A to B and thats when its all up to speed, stroke, eddies, waves, surfing pivot turns and stalls and all the other items noted above become the keys. Not that they were not always part of the equation(s). Thats why its good to paddle with more skilled boats who you trust and take time to learn / to get comfortable with the process. .

One last note .. in my mind... one needs to understand the outcome if you screw up. Is the beat down or outcome worth it. Do you want to put yourself or one of your buds at risk. Its your boat to paddle or carry - don't let others tell you different. My $.01! Good thread!

PS - Phil's comment on flow (slower or faster) is a major hurtle for most new boaters even on Is and IIs. Bad things happen when the flow is in control! Learned multiple times at a personal level.

PatrickOC1 · Post by **PatrickOC1** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:17 pm

Craig Smerda wrote: practice finding/using the occasional slack water and/or eddies to slow you down if need be. There's a good reason to practice eddy turns and peelouts and when you get on big fast water you'll soon realize exactly how good your's are. Sometimes hitting waves or holes that won't keep or hold you a little sideways helps break things up and at times they might be used to actually steer you where you need to git.

:

Most of the big holes were about two thirds across the river extending from the river left bank I paddle on the left so I was able to skirt the oles just to the right and then use a high brace/ stern draw type stroke to keep my bow from swinging around in the slack water behind the holes that seemed to work to slow my progression enough to see where I was.

Lots of little strokes definetly helped gaining speed back in those weird pushy currents Im glad ive been working on my cross foreward stroke.

Nessmuk · Post by **Nessmuk** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:36 pm

Somebody mentioned doing corrective strokes and direction changes at the wave crests- you might also want to try timing your power strokes to coincide with the wave crests.

The ends of your boat will be up and out of the water, so you can accelerate quicker. And you can use the "downhill" part of the wave to accelerate even more.

Let the river do the heavy lifting (bringing you to the top of the wave), then take advantage of gravity.

I use this technique in my Quake (a notoriously slow boat), and it makes a world of difference.

xtraheat · Post by **xtraheat** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:33 am

I agree with the above poster... I don't think it's about more strokes or more powerful strokes, but about more well-timed strokes. Right as you are about to drop into a hole or a big wave, take one big stroke to propel yourself into it and lean back. This will help give you leverage and power to clear the hole, and counteract the river trying to slow you down or redirect you. Also, try to absolutely minimize the amount of time your blade is out of the water when the water is heavy; when it is out of the water, you a lot of your stability and are very much at the mercy of the current.