Ambitious tandem for a light team

[avlclimber]

So I've done some research into bohemian tandem boats and solos as tandems
mainly @ these links:

http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php? ... ght+tandem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php? ... ght+tandem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but most seem geared toward sensible ambition and normal sized humans. Myself and my girlfriend are lean twigs weighing in at about 240-245 as a team. The longboater in me would enjoy paddling a Caption or Blast or a Probe 14, but that thang's just big and heavy. I've got a flatwater crossover canoe that handles up to II-III, and what I really want is a tiny tandem we can style down class III rivers and creeks, the Big Laurel, the Noli, or just about any class IV we might work up to.

It would still be a river-runner, but she's an excellent bowman, and I'd like to style the tough eddies, run the tight lines, and be able to paddle whatever we can squeeze it down and get lots of stares from Kayakers. How short can we go without sinking deep or hating the flats? What is the ideal boat? Outrage X? an Encore? a Nitro? Probe 11? Prophet? Splash? What do we know about the new project tandem from Blackfly?

...and while we're at it, how would you space the seating? Nipples-to-shoulderblades in a L'ledge would prohibit those classy off-side eddy turns where you're both on the same side of the boat... or would it?

[sc]

My spousal-unit Kim and I are a long-time caption team. Also pretty light combined. Overall we like the caption fine, but wanted something with a bit more carve. So a few years back I set up a viper 12' as a tandem. (it's the boat that Einar talks about in the first thread that you linked to) The platform on that boat is pretty short so it made sense to offset the saddles.

The whole thing was an interesting project. Harder chines, better carve, lighter boat. But we found it way too wet for our liking, and a bit corky. Worse still, with the caption, we had this cool move where we could lock onto a surf wave, Kim would lean way back, and I would plant a big kiss on her lips. But the saddles on the viper were so close together that we could not manage the surf-smooch.

We still have the caption but parted ways with the viper. Now Don (skooks) uses it now -- with one of his kids in the bow.

If I wanted to up the ante in a tandem, I'd look into one of those newer C-2s.

sc

[philcanoe]

So I've done some research into bohemian tandem boats and solos as tandems
mainly @ these links:

http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php? ... ght+tandem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php? ... ght+tandem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but most seem geared toward sensible ambition and normal sized humans. Myself and my girlfriend are lean twigs weighing in at about 240-245 as a team. The longboater in me would enjoy paddling a Caption or Blast or a Probe 14, but that thang's just big and heavy. I've got a flatwater crossover canoe that handles up to II-III, and what I really want is a tiny tandem we can style down class III rivers and creeks, the Big Laurel, the Noli, or just about any class IV we might work up to.

It would still be a river-runner, but she's an excellent bowman, and I'd like to style the tough eddies, run the tight lines, and be able to paddle whatever we can squeeze it down and get lots of stares from Kayakers. How short can we go without sinking deep or hating the flats? What is the ideal boat? Outrage X? an Encore? a Nitro? Probe 11? Prophet? Splash? What do we know about the new project tandem from Blackfly?

...and while we're at it, how would you space the seating? Nipples-to-shoulderblades in a L'ledge would prohibit those classy off-side eddy turns where you're both on the same side of the boat... or would it?

I'd attempt to float an L'Edge...(one of the above links) Few thought I was serious, and a couple even silly-phew-phew'ed the idea out loud; however at 245 you'd be right in there with some paddlers, and considering the dual-horse power of a tandem you-two might turn a few heads. It wouldn't hurt to deflate two airbags, and give one a quick try. If not to your liking or too small, maybe a Outrage-X. Seen some mighty big-boys in this one, and it's in between the two at 13' (? from memory).

[Sir Adam]

Millbrook Prowler:)

and keep something for creek specific runs. Or not

[Craig Smerda]

Adam... you mean Kaz's new tandem boat... the "Hostage"...

I think a Zephyr could make an excellent tandem boat for a light team... it's deep enough in the center* and has high ends... it relatively light and not exactly a dog... hmmmm... maybe I'll have to see if there's a spare lying around to do a little testing with.

Jeremy's tandemized Ion was a hoot to paddle...

The most commercially sucessful ww-tandem canoe is and probably will be for a very long time the Caption and there's a good reason for that... it's an excellent boat. The Esquif Blast for technical tandem whitewater is also... well... a blast. Of course neither of these boats are short though.



*One thing to keep in mind is that most OC's are 15" deep in the center and the shorter you go in length and the more weight you put in it the wetter it's going to be. So with a short boat and added weight you need either more depth and/or a wider bottom to float high enough.

[RodeoClown]

As Craig eluded to, I'm working on a short tandem. When I say short, I mean around 9ft. The first prototype is just a lengthened Ion, and has proved very fun and surprisingly river worthy (especially considering it was cobbled together with scrap plastic. It's going to be aimed at two 'average' sized paddlers, so 350lbs+.

However, I want to do at least one more prototype, so I'd say don't expect to see it finished before spring.

[philcanoe]

but Craig we could call it a 2ta'ledge

[Shep]

Have you tried a Blast yet? I know it's not short, but I know two different people here in Arkansas, one less than 200 lb, that like the Blast as a solo boat. That leads me to believe it must be quite responsive in the tandem configuration, and quite capable of class IV.

Thanks,
Shep

[avlclimber]

The Blast probably would do everything you would want it to, and is shorter than I realized. But I wonder if there are still advantages in converting an OC1. The Esquif site advertises the Blast as a longer Nitro. There may some specific design elements that differentiate them and the Nitro could be a slow wet underperformer... or it might ride great with light paddlers! Thoughts? Anyone have a cheap Nitro?

Length / Width / Depth / Rocker
Blast, Royalex
3,96 m (13' ) 72,4 cm (28 1/2") 40,6 cm (16") 15,2 cm (6") bow 17.8 cm (7") stern

Nitro, Royalex
3,5 m (11,6' ) 69,8 cm (27 1/2") 40,6 cm (16") 12,7 cm (5") bow 15.2 cm (6") stern

Zepher, Twin-Tex
3,43 m (11.3' ) 73,66 cm (29") 40,8 cm (16") 11,4 cm (4 1/2") bow 10 cm (4") stern


But why stop at one step down from a Blast? Once you start looking at going shorter than a Nitro, there aren't many boats in the 10-11 ft range. Many look to be poor tandems. The Hellman Otter might float 2 paddlers higher than some other 10 ft boats. (but who has ever seen one of those?)

Cost is a differentiator when it comes to hacking up a newer design like a ledge, but if anyone has a spare or thrashed version they want to offer to the experiment, that would be a fun ride (and it really might work!) a double bulkhead would be cool.

This is great information. More thoughts?

[RodeoClown]

I figured I'd add a picture. It has a double bulkhead saddle too.

[avlclimber]

That's hawt. I want one.

[Shep]

You know Jeremy, when I see the mottled brown, I wonder if the kayakers around here might've thought my Option was even cooler than an urban camo drysuit. Oh well, we may never know.

Shep

[Kelly-Rand]

Hey I'd be up for testing it on the Winni this weekend. I paddle left or right in C2.

[milkman]

Wow, that really is cool. It could make me consider paddling tandem again. No reason to get divorced when you have a boat that short and made of PE. It's the ultimate in intimacy. Well, almost. Certainly, the next best thing.

[bushpaddler]

We're around 290-295 lbs as a team have some experience with the Blast. I can only say -> try one <- I experienced big differences in boat performance having 20-30 lbs more in the boat. Performance decreased even the bow paddler was a good one. If it would be that much better with 20-30 lbs less --- wow, that would be fun!

On the other hand side, in very narrow class IV creeks a shorter boat definately has advantages. That's why we sometimes use our C-2, Canoah Amerika. But the river must really be VERY narrow to be too small for the Blast. And i'm not sure if a shorter open boat would still be dry enough if there is some volume in such creeks...

Would like to have one of the BlackFly tandems anyway...

Florian