Howler Now vs. Vertige-X later

[Gryphon]

Ok, ok, I'm trying to get off the head of the pin. I am going to Portland, OR this weekend to paddle the Vertige (& Blast, just for a comparison of the two hulls). However, the Vertige-X (my preference) won't be available on the West Coast until much later this fall. [Haven't found a Caption or a Synergy, yet!]

So, in the mean time, a nice young man is offering to sell me his MRC Howler - gently used, fully outfitted, etc. for a great price. In his response on the "solo/tandem boat" thread, Jim (Pain Boater) touted the Howler to TGB, who was also looking for a boat for himself and growing children.

I'm comfortable with the Vertige/X, Caption, & Synergy options and my intermediate ability level. The seller suggests that I'll be OK in the Howler, too. Can anybody with Howler experience comment? How much more difficult is the Howler to handle solo than tandem?

Thanks.

[Jan_dettmer]

Hey, contact me and I give you the e-mail of a guy who has a Vertige X on Vanc Isl. I know, its not US but still west coast

Cheers, Jan

[Cone Bone]

You might check with David Middleton of Vacouver, BC regarding a Vertige X. He kicked butt on all the NW US suppliers of Esquif Blast boats. I am supposed to meet him in Blaine WA within a week to pick up a Blast that would have taken quite a bit longer to get had I waited for the Portland vendors to get a boat for me. He's a pretty active western Candada Esquif dealer.

David Middleton 604-240-0503

Good luck,

[Jim]

That was probably my post on the MRC Howler. I find the Howler to be a fun but long (15', slalom regulation medium length) solo boat. It is fast and dry (but probably not as dry as some of the other boats you are considering). If you want to get somewhere (that is- paddle rivers, not play 1 hole) and still have a VERY responsive boat it is a good canoe.

As a tandem canoe you need to be considerate of paddler size. I usually paddle this with my son (combined weight about 270 pounds) and it handles great. When I paddle with my wife (combined weight of 325 pounds) it feels twitchy. It stays dry (great flare on the front helps push the waves away) but the edge makes her very uncomfortable.

I bought mine used for $250 and it has been one of the best investments I have made as it gets used a lot. However, I take plenty of paddlers out and recently bought a Dagger Dimension so that I have a big tandem plastic boat to handle people when the combined weight is in the 400 pound range, as the Howler will not do that.

Final thought- the absolute best boat for solo and tandem paddling is the Millbrook Prowler. It is drier and more stable than the Howler, handles more weight, and in composite it is faster than the Howler. If I was to own only 1 boat (instead of 9) this would be it.

Jim

[Jim]

After posting it occurred to me- you are going about this all wrong. You need to get EACH of those boats.

A while back I was rearranging to fit a boat into my 2 car garage, which also has 2 cars in it, and my neighbor stopped in. I mumbled about too many boats and my wise neighbor said "you do not have too many boats, you have too many cars." He was right. My solution is to store 9 canoes and 2 kayaks (wife's and son's) in the garage with creative solutions, plus another 2 canoes and a kayak that belong to friends in the back yard.

Summary- more IS better.

Every time my wife complains about the boats I point out how many skis she has. If that does not work I bring up shoes (last week she bought SEVEN pairs in one shopping trip- that will give me leverage for years!).

Good luck.

Jim

[sbroam]

Every so often I remind my wife that all of the boats owned between me and her father (20 or more) still cost far, far less than the bass boat that a friend bought for - $50,000 (that is fifty thousand United States dollars...) ....

[Gryphon]

Jim:

I've seen the Prowler mentioned as the "best" for what it does many times now. It originally seemed like too much boat for me - strong emphasis on turning, less on touring. Now, perhaps it's looking more appropriate.

My remaining concerns are the long stretches of Class I / Flat water here, in between the "fun stuff". This originally lead me to the Synergy (g2d highly recommended) as being able to both ferry well upstream and track when necessary without excessive effort (using good technique, of course).

Will the Howler / Prowler do the same? [Especially since used Synergies are a little bit rare?] Or are they really more perfomance than I need or will use (rhetorical)?

I'm sure that multiple boats are in my future. One friend suggested that I really need a glass Clipper Prospector 14 or Nova Craft Supernova. I have several collections that fall under the category of "hobbies". Here I go again.

Thanks again for the advice!

[danab]

The prowler is meant to turn, run gates and just a great high performance boat. The "cab-forward" design and huge amount of rocker forward etc. helps to achieve this. My friends race in this boat slalom but generallly take the royalex caption down rock-studded rec. whitewater. However, they sometimes use an older prowler when there is more water and less bottom banging.

Try lots of class I whitewater and giant cab-forward on a windy day--bad enough in a outrage or caption. Sounds like you want a high performance boat--tandem and solo; a tripping boat; and a solo beginner to intermediate royalex boat to run whitewater and fun to learn in. Can' t get them all in one.

[yarnellboat]

I'm pretty sure Middleton has already brought in a Vertige X, but he doesn't list those boats on his site. He certainly was all over the Esquifs. Maybe the Vertige X was ordered direct, but there is one in Vancouver.

http://www.middletonsboats.com/index.html

I fellow by the name of Bob Hoye in Vancouver may still have a lightly used, outfitted Caption for sale. Check the websites of MEC, and the Beaver and Dodwood clubs.

P.

[Jim]

Gryphon.

My problem is that the "best" boat is always the one I am in at the moment, because I am always having fun in my boats. Yesterday morning I paddled the Prowler, so...

Actually, I agree with Danab's post about the boats you need.

The Prowler is made for whitewater. Period. You will find it frustrating on flatwater, as you will with any of these boats when compared to the traditional (flatwater) canoe. However, you will find a flatwater boat just as frustrating on whitewater. So you need to figure out where you really want to spend your time. For me, that means that I spend some time paddling flatwater in my Prowler. Kaz's design is a fantastic blend of speed and maneuverability, with the emphasis on dryness and maneuverability in the Prowler.

Jim

[danab]

Gryphon,

if my comments have been prickly--it's just that I'd love to be able to paddle any boat right now. 5 weeks past shoulder surgery, doing ridiculously painful ROM's and trying to visualize all the moves on my cross side.

will be worth it all when I get out there next spring-summer.

d

[yarnellboat]

Gryphon,

Some good photos of the Vertige X in action on the post about the Smoky River!

P.

[the great gonzo]

The yellow boats on the Smoky River website are Bell Prodigys, not Esquif boats.

martin

[Gryphon]

Thanks, everyone! Nowhere else could I get such a wealth of knowledge and experience!

It looks like I really need to take some of your advice. Simply, get a Vertige and paddle. [or get lucky and find a Synergy]. I hate to give up the opportunity for the Howler, but it is probably not the right boat that this time.

danab - I haven't felt your responses to be prickly at all. I'm a design engineer, at times with a mono-maniacal focus. I need to hear it straight - so thanks for giving it to me that way. I also need context to compensate for my lack of recent experience, and you've all given me that, too. I've had 24 weeks of PT on both shoulders in the past year, so I sympathize. Keep at it and get strong!

Thanks, too, to everyone for the help on the Vertige-X. I emailed the PNW and Canada reps. Everyone there has been very helpful.

Thanks again, and paddle well.

P.S. If I understand correctly, all Esquif boats are color idendifiable. The Blast is Red, the Vertige is Yellow, the Vertige-X is Bright Blue, the Nitro is Orange, the Detonator is (Oops!) also Yellow, and the Zoom is an almost Purple-Blue. All of the Prodigy/X boats that I have seen are Yellow. I've seen the Nexus in Red and Yellow. Ocoees are Yellow, too, but someone wanted a custom run of Purple Ocoees. I wonder if Bell ever made them?