OC1s: Rival vs. Outrage

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:10 pm

Can anyone compare the Dagger Rival to the MR Outrage? They seem somewhat similar, what are the differences in performance?

Thanks, Pat.

Scott C · Post by **Scott C** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:31 am

They are verry similar. The outrage feels narower and is not as forgiving. You may find it is not as dry either. But it shoud be a more playfull boat.

My opinion

Scott

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:55 am

I paddle an Ocoee and a Millbrook Defiant but have spent some time in both the Outrage and the Rival. Since I don't own either one my opinion is not biased ( I don't think...). I agree with what you have heard. They are very similar. It would be a tough decision between the two. The Outrage probably turns easier and it is narrower for better cross strokes. The buyer's guide from C & K says it is a pound lighter. Sounds like I may favor the Outrage... I just don't know. This post was no help but thought I would second that they are very similar. After all that, why not an Ocoee ( used or new from Bell, whenever they get it in gear). A great boat! Also look at the Rumba from Millbrook. Don't be afraid of the kevlar. A boat under 30 pounds is a pleasure to paddle and carry. Kaz's boats are well built and and the price is comparable to any new plastic whitewater canoe.
Good luck

angela · Post by **angela** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:02 pm

My 2 cents:

I recently puchased an Outrage after trying both boats. I'd actually paddled the Rival twice, on class 2 rivers, while I'd only been in the Outrage briefly (love at first paddle

). Both are great but to me the Outrage seems more nimble, maybe because it feels smaller. I don't feel like I'm paddling a barge, as I do with most open boats.

Angie

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:52 pm

....check out the Spark from Esquif... Kaz design, fairly light, and from what I've heard a fast boat...

craig

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:47 pm

My first thought when I saw a picture of a Spark was that it looked like an Outrage, but I'm shopping used.

These posts confirm my suspicions that the Outrage feels smaller, lighter and more nimble to turn (and is possibly wetter). At the time of it's design, the Rival was a very playful boat, but now I hear it described as a barge. How can 2 boats with such similar specs feel that different?

Maybe I'll just bag-out the Outrage more or add a splash deck on the bow.

P.

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:48 pm

I'll bet the Outrage X even paddles "smaller, lighter and more nimble" than the Rival? But perhaps the X and the Rival are more similar.

P.

billcanoes · Post by **billcanoes** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:03 pm

I used to own an outrage x- It was a great starter boat and would be great on big water. However, it was a barge- it was super stable but probably a key of my lack of ability was I didn't think it eddied quickly, or possibly crisply would be a better word. The Rival I paddled was quicker than the Outrage X, but I have not compared it to an Outrage.

Bill

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:33 pm

Bill, In your experience, did the Rival turn more crisply than the Outrage X? Which was more responsive and more fun to paddle?

Pat.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:47 am

I own an outrage, and have paddled a Rival. In my opinion, the outrage is as fast, turns sharper and without the totally round hull of the Rival, it feels more solid and surfs a little better. It's narrow, which gives a small female like me a better reach with offside strokes. I do not find the Outrage to be wet. Am I biased? probably a little but I had the option to buy a used Rival for cheaper than the retail Outrage and went with the Outrage.
Cheers
Gail

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:16 am

Hi Gail,

No, you're not biased, you're a small female!

I'd think you should definately be in a narrow Outrage compared to a Rival. I, however, weigh 200lbs, so maybe I make the Outrage a wet ride. Apparently the Outrage X is for paddlers over 180 or 190 - but I don't get these wieght spec, because I see lots very large men in smaller OCs.

Does the Rival have a rounder hull than the Outrage? I thought maybe the Outrage was designed to be more foregiving and the Rival had harder edges? Maybe I was wrong on that.

Do people agree that the Outrage generally out-turns and out-surfs the Rival?

P.

billcanoes · Post by **billcanoes** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:55 pm

I'm 193, so I'm about your weight. The Rival was more fun and more agile than the Outrage X. MY Outrage X was pretty wide, (list it at 25.5, but when I measure from the outside gunwales it was more like 28 , but I had vinyl gunwales, which I heard made the boat different than the ash gunwales boat. ) so it was very dry, but I would currently choose a Rival over an Outrage X, unless I was always going to paddle in rivers with 3-4' waves. The Outrage X in its favor, I thought surfed very well (as long as carving wasn't involved), but I put over 50 trips in it, as opposed to my brief 2-3 times borrowing a Rival.

Summary, my OX was soft chined, wide and fairly flat bottom so it (at least my ability to use it) slid into eddies, and after paddling some narrower boats, seemed like it was pushing water instead of gliding. I would love to try a narrower version, or wish I had pulled the boat in.

billcanoes · Post by **billcanoes** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:14 pm

I saw this in rival in C atle
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 75650&rd=1

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:51 pm

And thus my questions. Shhh!

P.

Scott C · Post by **Scott C** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:49 am

If this it Gail from Ottawa she would not weigh 200 with all her camping gear!!!

As for the outrage vs the x I think you might find the x a little slugish as they only added a chunk to the midshp to give it more boyancy. At 240 I was at the top weight for the rival but I found it a little to forgiving. If you are looking for all out profrmance do not look at either boat

.

Scott

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OC1s: Rival vs. Outrage

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