Advice on whitewater canoe

[MidwayMountaineer]

First off I'm about 6'1" 160ish lbs... I have been paddling a Mohawk Intrepid for over two years now and progressively hitting rougher water up to some lower end class III... I would love to get into solo canoeing but have never been and not sure if there are any outfitter shops around me that will let me demo one... I was needing advice on a good beginner friendly solo ww canoe... I would love to get into this sport and build my way up to some rough water...Maybe I could get some names of some canoes that are pretty stable and forgiving and for my weight and height ... Also I live in Southwest Virginia near the Tri-Cities, TN area does anybody know of anywhere where they teach any solo canoe classes?? I'd like to find a good used one outfitted so i can start paddling!! I haven't browsed the forum any so sorry if a similiar question has already been posted...

[clarion]

This Probe 12 is in GA. http://boatertalk.com/gear/gear-detail.php?gid=64692" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Creeker]

Seeing that you want to push the class I'd start thinking Plastic canoe for durability that puts you in the New sticker price range of $1500-$1900. Those canoes are in a small circle.

1. Mohawk Phiend (soon to be released)
2. Esquif made L'edge
3. Big Dog Force (just released)
4. Blackfly Option
5. Blackfly Ion

If you find your way to central NJ I'd be happy to let you jump in 4 of the 5 listed.

Of all of these you have a better chance of finding a used L'edge as some are 2 years old now and people are changing boats already with the 4 new creeking canoe options in the last 18 months. The chances of a newbie finding one of these canoes before an experienced paddler is sort of grim unless you check cboats daily. These boats have a way of moving between paddlers and never hitting the "open" market. If you find what you want you can put it out there on the GDI facebook group or Cboats.net of what you want.... sometimes people will make boats available to new paddlers when they want to buy another or have too many. (no such thing as too many to me)

I'm not big on royalex hulls but if you see a detonator by esquif available and the hull is not torn yet you should seriously consider that in the ballpark of $500-ish. The Mohawk rodeo is a fun little royalex canoe as well and I'd pay about $500 for that. If the hulls are not torn yet you can expect to get a couple seasons out of either easily. If they look well worn I might proactively lay a bit of glass or Gorilla Tape on the chines to make sure you don't tear the royalex under the knees (especially in the detonator).

BTW - your 160lbs will be nicely gentle on your hulls and while some hulls don't stand up as well as others your 160 will do nicely for you.

[TNbound]

I agree with what Creeker said about going with plastic if possible, especially for those shallow and rocky southern creeks. However, I think for someone looking to just break into the sport (addiction, lifestyle?) any whitewater specific solo boat will be better than none. Pick up whatever you can find locally at a reasonable deal.* If it is a hot creek boat like an Option or a L'edge, great. If it is a Probe 12, a Detonator, or an Outrage, also great. You'll still be learning a lot and having a blast doing it.

You should also expect a steep learning curve coming from an Intrepid. A 8-12 foot canoe paddles very differently from a 16 footer, but so long as the boat is reasonably forgiving you should be fine. (After a couple swims )



*Notoriously unforgiving boats that would be poorly suited to a novice paddler include the Prelude, the Maxim, and the Zoom, though they can be great boats in the right hands.

[MidwayMountaineer]

How about a Mohawk Shaman??? I found one locally outfitted that the guy is goin to let me test out before I buy?? Would it be a good novice boat??

[clarion]

Shaman = yes! Great boat for a novice and you can certainly stick with it too. It has a forgiving bottom, good primary and secondary stability, it's fast, and it has a fairly narrow bow that is great for learning cross forward strokes. I'd snag it.

[Creeker]

If you want to creek 3+ or harder on tighter creeks you will very much appreciate it if you can stay at or under 10' in length....otherwise stern damage is coming your way for sure. I know some folks that love the Shaman. The best canoe is the one you can get in today. If you get it cheap enough you can turn it over without much loss.

[drrpm]

The Shaman would be reasonable. A whitewater canoe won't track like your Intrepid but the Shaman will be easier to handle than those ultra short boats. Also, the Shaman is light and made of R84 instead of regular royalex so it won't hold up as well if you bang it on a lot of rocks. It will be better if there is plenty of water in the river.

[MidwayMountaineer]

Found it for $550 probably talk him down a little its just a dust ornament in his basement he said... he paddled it once but prefers to wear a skirt so he wants rid of it...Yeah nothing too extreme coming my way for a while ..A local paddling group takes a trip with newbies down the noli gorge in August hoping i can get in on that..

[arhdc]

I was almost exactly where you are now a year ago.

I had been running more and more white water over the course of a couple of years in tandem canoes. My last tandem was a 15' Nova Craft Prospector and I ran it solo mainly on non-technical class II and a little very non-technical class III. It was fun and I knew that I wanted more but that I needed a different boat to do it in.

Here you run into the great "what boat is best for me" debate. I'll outline the two schools of thought that you will encounter here on cboats.net and go from there.

Buy a Short Plastic Boat (Less than 10' - Option, Ion, L'Edge, Force, Pheind)

Short plastic canoes are the rage right now. They are fun, maneuverable and tough. They are great for steep creeks and guys are running these boats on everything. As a general rule they roll well and can fit into the same eddies as the kayaks.

Short boats will, in my opinion (subject to debate), push you into a steeper learning curve and you are likely to progress in your skills faster. Things that you are able to blast through in your current boat will not be blastable. Making any WW canoe move forward under power is something that needs to be learned but short boats are not forgiving of poor forward strokes. What all of this means is that you will swim more starting out.

Cost: Almost impossible to get used and never cheap = $1400-$2200

Buy a more traditional beginner WW Boat in Royalex

These boats include but are not limited to Probe, Shamen, Outrage, Raven, Vertage, Prodigy, Nitro, XL and many more. Longer boats are not the rage right now. They are faster, track better and are easier to make move forward. Rolling is still possible. They are fun but not as nimble as the smaller boats and they do not take as much abuse as the small plastic boats. These boast are more simalar to what you paddle now and will be more forgiving, particularly when forward momentum is needed. They do not have as steep of a learning curve.

Cost: Plenty of used boats out there = $200 (very used) up, $500-$700 will get a decent used boat.

The direction you go will depend on you. A short boat will likely make you better faster but you will take more punishment getting there. You will also be more limited in the runs that you can do starting out. How much are you willing to swim, who are you paddling with and what runs are you doing.

Ten months ago I went from my 15' tandem to a short 9'6" boat similar to the plastic ones suggested (I built a woodstrip StinkEyeX). I'm a good swimmer and don't mind getting thrashed a bit so this worked for me. Looking back I believe that my short canoe has made me better than I would be now if I had started in something larger but I broke two toes and a foot along the way. Some folks would not have fared as well as I did but there are a lot of folks who start in short canes and do just fine.

Finally, whatever you go with, find some good OC/C boaters to run with, take some classes if you can. There is way more to running WW well than you can imagine.