Royalex Adhesives

[boharriss]

Hello all - new to the forum, after having just found it. I paddled OC1 for many years, and work/life got in the way for a few. I've pulled out the old Dagger and started the process of pulling out the outfitting (that which hadn't already fallen out) and have some questions on adhesives & removal. The thigh retainer and air bag d-rings had all lost their adhesion to the hull and fallen out. Most of the old Mohawk saddle had pulled away from the hull as well as all the minicell padding I'd installed. Questions:

Is there an easy way to remove the adhesive, safely, and without hurting the vinyl/abs?

Is it even necessary to fully remove all of the old adhesive revenues before reinstalling the saddle, pads, and d-rings? Is there any amount of residue that is acceptable?

For installation, should I stick with vynabond on d-rings and Weldwood (red) on the minicell?

I've seen a ton of differing opinions on the forums and around the net, so I'm trying to find some concensus and this seems like the right place to be.

Thanks in advance! I'm looking forward to getting back on some moving water.

[TNbound]

A putty knife will get generally the foam off and after that some sanding should get any bits of foam or glue that are left.
I generally don't worry too much about getting every last little bit of old glue off. The new glue will stick to the old glue.

And, yes: Weldwood for the foam and Vynabond for the d-rings.

Good luck getting back on the river!

[boharriss]

Thanks - any advice on more current outfitting options to my mid-90's Mohawk saddle and retainer? I Liked it's simplicity and reliability, but would love to hear other opinions on newer options.

[hazardharry]

i use 3M 5200 marine adhesive/sealent for d-ring to royalex.costs about half of vynabond. stocked at local home de-pot. red can for minicell foam just lay a good bead at the edges like this. http://youtu.be/0fKMEgugs-Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ohioboater]

Thanks - any advice on more current outfitting options to my mid-90's Mohawk saddle and retainer? I Liked it's simplicity and reliability, but would love to hear other opinions on newer options.

Just one person's opinion, but if your Mohawk saddle system is still in good shape, use it. It gives you the convenience of a bulkhead with the flexibility of a strap system.

I'll echo the other comments on glue. For the foam bits, use red can Weldwood. It's ok to glue right over the old residue, though if it's dirty, you might want to sand it down a bit. For the D-rings and thigh retainer pads, use Vyna-bond. Vyna bond does seem to get dusty/brittle after about 15 years, so you might want to consider sanding most of the residue off. Just don't sand through your hull's top layer. For cleaning up the vinyl pads, I've found that hitting them hard with a hair dryer will reactivate/loosen the old glue, making it easier to scrape off. Again, if the residue isn't dirty or powdery, you might be able to just glue right over it.

[milkman]

Careful with any sanding. Use a fine grit (150 or so). You don't want to sand away the vinyl layer. It's there to give you something you can glue to.

I try to get as much glue as I can off with 99% rubbing alcohol and heat (not used together!). I've often been successful with one or both of these and using a plastic scraper or even my fingers to work off the glue. And like others have said, it doesn't have to be every bit. The real stubborn stuff I've just left on. The old vinylbond will reactivate and bond with the new. For putting in a seat pedestal, I've generally been more anal about getting the old glue off, wanting to get the best bond possible. I've spend some quality time just rubbing the old contact cement with my fingers to get it to peel off.

Other outfitting choices: Check out Mike Yee's stuff (google Mike Yee Outfitting to find his site). It's an excellent system, though more complicated to install than the Mohawk system. Mohawk also still sells its thigh strap system and an extreme system a little like Mike Yee's, though I can only find a mention of the extreme system on their website--no pictures.

You can also go bulkhead. Beluga makes one. So does Bob Britt. I think this is the thread on his saddle: http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?p=79426.

I've had the Mohawk thigh retainer system, the Mike Yee outfitting, and the Beluga bulkhead. I like the bulkhead best, but it's one serious flaw is it is one size fits one size. People who want to try my boat have to be very similar in size to me to fit in. My second favorte was the Mike Yee system--it's adjustable to the paddler and gives you very good contact and control of the hull. I like the Mohawk thigh retainer system, but it's a little fussy and the belts tend to come off the foam thigh strap and you end up having to reglue them from time to time. Other than that, it's pretty good.

[Shep]

I've had the Mohawk thigh retainer system, the Mike Yee outfitting, and the Beluga bulkhead. I like the bulkhead best, but it's one serious flaw is it is one size fits one size. People who want to try my boat have to be very similar in size to me to fit in. My second favorte was the Mike Yee system--it's adjustable to the paddler and gives you very good contact and control of the hull. I like the Mohawk thigh retainer system, but it's a little fussy and the belts tend to come off the foam thigh strap and you end up having to reglue them from time to time. Other than that, it's pretty good.

+1 to all of the above. I would put the Mike Yee system in any boat that wasn't a serious creeker, but I do like the bulkhead in my Option and Taureau.

[Alan S]

Be careful with the vinabond. If the skin on the royalex is not intact, and it may not be after removing old outfitting, the vinabond can eat a hole in your boat (as I know from personal experience). A recommended solution that I have heard is to put the vinabond on like contact cement. That is, spread glue on both the patch and boat and allow the glue to dry before pushing them together, using a hair dryer to improve adhesion. The instructions that come with vinabond are meant for rafts, not royalex.

You can also use Goop, which will hold straps or saddle without the risks of vinal adhesives. Again, put it on like contact cement but only allow it to dry partially.

[Silent Bob]

X2 on the Goop. I always seemed to have better luck with that than the Vynabond. Sand/scuff both surfaces, apply glue to both, let it dry somewhat, heat with a hair dryer and stick together.