Lap Belt

[Dave.E]

I picked up a L'edge a couple months ago and love the boat. I've been working away at getting the outfitting right over the last couple weeks (I'm still getting used to a bulkhead). It is pretty snug, but I have been ripped right out of my boat twice now flipping in holes. I have a pretty good roll so this is a bit annoying. I have been told that I need to work to stay in the boat, but my legs are usually too sore to push hard up into the outfitting.

I was messing around with the outfitting tonight and took the quick release belt off my PFD and fed it through one of the water tubes in the saddle to make a seat belt. I loved how it kept my butt down. I also couldn't pull myself out of the boat without pulling the belt which was nice.

Point of this thread: I like to be in total control of when I leave the boat... How safe are seat belts in an open boat? Thoughts? Any input is cool!

Thanks,
Dave

[Sir Adam]

I think what you're creating is termed a "lap belt". A search here will yield a lively discussion (or several) of the pros and cons. I'm a big fan of thigh straps to hold me in - they do a great job, yet in most boats I can exit if needed. I haven't tested it lately, but "for fun" in my Viper I had a few folks try and pull me out - they couldn't (and not for lack of trying), but I could still get out myself without releasing the buckles (again, thigh straps anchored close to the crotch, not a lap belt). I like that (being able to get out with no hands, basically). Mind you, I'm 99% a C1er, but most of this will transfer directly over to your L'Edge.

[Dave.E]

Yep I meant lap belt! (changed title)

[Craig Smerda]

Unless you are constantly playing in holes and if you push on the pegs (not toes under the pegs)... you really should not ever need a lap (suicide) belt in an OC1.

If you are trying to roll with your toes pushed under the footpegs and expecting to hang in there while upside down... well... good luck.

Here's Phils rolling videos... he does a nice job of explaining what he's doing.
http://vimeo.com/29642417" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://vimeo.com/29704063" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://vimeo.com/30215181" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://vimeo.com/35810817" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://vimeo.com/36741447" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's one of my own...
http://vimeo.com/26362295" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That bein' said... I use a lap belt or thigh straps in my C1 to keep me planted to the seat or me and the skirt will come right off and out of the boat... cuz there's no footpegs to push on.

[Dave.E]

Unless you are constantly playing in holes and if you push on the pegs (not toes under the pegs)... you really should not ever need a lap (suicide) belt in an OC1.

If you are trying to roll with your toes pushed under the footpegs and expecting to hang in there while upside down... well... good luck.

I am pushing against the pegs, I don't find it comfortable to sit with my ankles fully extended anyways. I have always been able to stay in my boat at long as I want without thinking about it a whole lot. I thought it was totally fine until last weekend where I swam because I went through a hole and my boat was instantly ripped right off my legs

[arhdc]

Just add more foam

Seriously though, you can make the retention of a bulkhead system much better by adding more foam to come back further on your thighs.

I like extra blocks glued to the side foam above my thighs just behind the normal thigh hooks. With this setup I can really stay in my boat even in turbulent water. There is always the possibility that you will get ripped out anyhow but it really improved my ability to stay in the boat and it's easy to implement.

[sbroam]

Stay out of big holes.

Work on working to stay in your boat - you can get better at it. Think of your boat as a floating thigh master.

My toes are *under* the pegs because my ankles and knees really don't care for the angles / compression of *pushing* on the pegs. When my roll fails it can be for any number of reasons, but its never been a foot peg issue.

Lap belt? No - never felt like I could get out without releasing a buckle and I don't like something mechanical between me an air. Mechanical things can jam or be hard to get at....

Thigh straps? Maybe. I use them in most of my boats and for a while I used a bulkhead *plus* thigh straps in my Spanish Fly. I couldn't get tight enough with the bulkhead alone and added the straps - nice and tight, but could always get out just by taking my feet off the pegs. Then... I got serious about snugging up the bulkhead - now I'm bulk-head-only in that boat. A couple of months ago I flipped, almost fell out, was able to "get a better grip" with my legs * (look Ma - no hands) and was able to reset and roll - could never have done that with a strap (only) set up...

[* it really helped to have my toes *under* the pegs - that was a big part of how I was able to pull myself back in. YMMV]

[sbroam]

Craig - thanks for posting Phil's videos again - I realized I'd missed one :

http://vimeo.com/35810817" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Those are some awesome exercises. Phil's demonstration on the pull up bar may explain much about his rolling prowess.

[canotrouge]

These are great videos!! He should put them on a cd and sale it!! A lot of info there!
Thank you for sharing!
Cheers

[Trex]

Phil certainly has a gift for explaining things.

Here is another one in the series that focuses on body extension.

http://vimeo.com/37899962" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Craig – thanks for posting these video links.

[Alan S]

I added thigh straps in my Ledge using 2 seat belt straps with a single quick release (one cord connecting the buckles attached by drilling a hole through the buckles). I attached one end of the straps to the rear thwart on either side of the saddle, then tied the other ends of the straps together and ran it all through a hole formed by pvc in front of the saddle. This system held me in the boat as tightly as I wanted with far less risk than a lap belt. Releasing one of the two buckles allowed an easy wet exit and you could still wiggle out without releasing either buckle.

But lately, I've taken the straps out and worked at tweaking the bulkhead system to keep it simple. I'm also more comfortable when I can move in and out of the outfitting easily.

I also had a few unexpected swims in the Ledge but part of this may be just getting used to the boat and outfitting. Tightening your knees around the bulkhead when upside down helps a bit. One outfitting tweak that helped was to attach a bit of foam to the side walls of the boat to keep the ends of the bulkhead tight against your thighs when rolling.

I agree that Phil's rolling videos are great.

[arhdc]

FYI

If you are using seat belt buckles, they require gravity to release. This is to say they will not unlatch inverted.

[Alan S]

To clarify, I meant old Volkswagon style seat belt buckles, basically the same as airplane seat belt buckles. If you pull up, they release. I believe that they are the standard buckle used for lap belts and they are often used for thigh straps in C1s. There are several other threads in this forum that discuss and illustrate outfitting using seat belt buckles.