why doesn't someone build a plastic river runner C1?

Post by **sbroam** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:44 am

We sure seem to have hijacked this thread!

On the current topic - I think paddler mass could make a difference on relative wetness - in my SF at 220#, I think the bow plunges on drops more and takes on water (bow or stern, depending) when surfing than with a lighter paddler. The Prelude might be drier, with that higher bow.

Back to the original thread - Angela, I'd try out a FInk before placing an order - I don't think it's necessarily going to be a general purpose river runner. Search here, we've had a number of discussions about it. I haven't had a chance to paddle one yet...

Post by **PAC** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:29 am

Angie you should try out the Fink. When I first saw it (GFest a few years back) I thought to self - WTF?
It looked way too big for a C1, has a rake, high volume bow and low volume beaver tail stern.
Then Gonzo brough his down for the over the falls race. Even though it was outfitted for some one at least 6" taller I jumped in and ran the falls, ...then ran the Loop (LY), ...then starting looking hard for one.
Right now I'd say its a favorate! Almost slalom fast on edge, able to take a pounding on creeky stuff, stable as heck, punches big holes and releases out of sticky ones, and fairly easy to roll (I know others will disagree on that)!
The down side is that it likes to be paddled / rolled cab forward. Different then having to neutral like in other boats I own.
I've even ran stuff in it as a OC (forgot my skirt once and found I really don't need it on the Fink unless the weather it nasty or its really big stuff!
Don't get me wrong other boats are great too. I think the Remix and Burn are nice C1s as well. But for my $.01 it does make a good down river boat - just don't think you'll be tossing ends in it.
Paul C.

semdoug · Post by **semdoug** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:38 am

Is the Finkenmeister still being made? I could not find it listed on the Robson website.

Post by **PAC** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:45 am

http://www.robsonusa.com/finkenmeister.htm
http://www.open-canoe.de/open-sucks/c1s/finki.html
I thought there was one or two left over from an import a year ago. Use the "Search" function on the site! Hope that helps! Paul C.

semdoug · Post by **semdoug** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:48 am

Thanks, that helps I was looking at the German site.

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:29 pm

Looks like we need another order of Finks brought across the pond:)

You (and others) may want to look at glass boats as well. I know many think of them as brittle, particularly after experiences with old glass boats...just keep in mind that like plastics (like my Sage, now in pieces just from old age), fiberglass / epoxy / kevlar have come a LONG way. And it's repairable:)

The Sith is truly a great boat....as are some others out there. Perhaps a Viper, built with today's materials, would be a great boat for you too (full volume).

Once we get in to the new year I'll try and remember to post up a poll asking about Finks "If some were ordered, would you purchase one, and be prepared to put down a deposit ahead of time", and see if we can interest a dealer in a transaction. Why wait? Most of us won't be paddling, and I suspect it will be an easier "sell" AFTER Christmas....

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:57 pm

Sir Adam wrote: Most of us won't be paddling....

What's up with that?

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:02 pm

HA!

What can I saw Mike, I prefer to ski on my snow rather than Paddle it;) Not that I haven't tried before....

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:31 pm

Mike W. wrote:
Sir Adam wrote: Most of us won't be paddling....
What's up with that?

Mike, us folks further North than you get this stuff called SNOW and ICE! It's a phenomenon that only happend when temperatures drop below freezing, therefore you are probably not familiar with it, and turn water from a fluid into a solid

! Yes, this is not a myth, it actually happens

!
As you might imagine, it's rather difficult to paddle your boat on this stuff. Hard to get any decent paddl strokes in.
If you would like to experience it personally, I suggest you visit Ontario in the middle of February

!

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:06 pm

martin wrote:Mike, us folks further North than you get this stuff called SNOW and ICE! It's a phenomenon that only happend when temperatures drop below freezing, therefore you are probably not familiar with it, and turn water from a fluid into a solid ! Yes, this is not a myth, it actually happens !
As you might imagine, it's rather difficult to paddle your boat on this stuff. Hard to get any decent paddl strokes in.
If you would like to experience it personally, I suggest you visit Ontario in the middle of February !

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

Ice is for tea...SWEET tea that is

Snow. Isn't that the stuff you see on TV that makes everything look like a cotton field?

KNeal · Post by **KNeal** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:25 am

Mike W. wrote:Ice is for tea...SWEET tea that is

Spoken like a true southern gentleman.

and fairly easy to roll (I know others will disagree on that

PAC, I've got my hand raised on that one, eh?

KNeal

c1swim · Post by **c1swim** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:33 am

+1 for the Fink. Awesome C1; down river, creeks, big water, slalom; perhaps the best plastic C1 ever.

So, did Endless Rivers sell all their Finkenmiesters?
I think they brought in 6 last year; is that right?

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:48 am

yes... you can still get a Fink although I don't believe there is currently anyone in North America importing for Robson.

then there's this... http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=5494 which you can order a factory version of from Esquif.

if you want to try get something "new" in a rotomolded plastic C1... I'd suggest you all start lobbying Corran or any kayak manufacturer willing to listen. Keep in mind molds cost $25-40,000 in a shiny aluminum... although they can be made in a fiberglass mold. read... http://www.boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1577420

plan D... keep converting

RodeoClown · Post by **RodeoClown** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:51 pm

Craig Smerda wrote:although they can be made in a fiberglass mold.

I think there's some potential there. Ed at Murky Water told me he's been building composite molds for various rotomolded prototypes- industrial stuff mostly, be he seemed to think it would be possible to do a run of boats. It's all about how the mold is built and treated- you should be able to get enough boats out of a mold to meet the demand without the extravagant cost of an aluminum mold. If someone was really motivated to do a plastic C-1, they should talk to him about it, and get shaping, and get some friends together to put deposits on them.

The real problem I see is deciding what this boat should look like. There aren't many c-boaters, everyone has seemingly different tastes in what they want (see... this thread), and then different sizes of boaters- so you've got a really small market in the end. And then you have to compete against all the conversion boats too.

Jeremy

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:39 pm

RodeoClown wrote:
Craig Smerda wrote:although they can be made in a fiberglass mold.
I think there's some potential there. Ed at Murky Water told me he's been building composite molds for various rotomolded prototypes- industrial stuff mostly, be he seemed to think it would be possible to do a run of boats. It's all about how the mold is built and treated- you should be able to get enough boats out of a mold to meet the demand without the extravagant cost of an aluminum mold. If someone was really motivated to do a plastic C-1, they should talk to him about it, and get shaping, and get some friends together to put deposits on them.

The real problem I see is deciding what this boat should look like. There aren't many c-boaters, everyone has seemingly different tastes in what they want (see... this thread), and then different sizes of boaters- so you've got a really small market in the end. And then you have to compete against all the conversion boats too.

Jeremy

All the boats from Savage V were made in glass molds... so were Sauvage and I believe Robson. It takes a different learning curve in the oven and such. Robson has the old Savage oven so we know it works... the molds have to be cared for and maintained better or the boats get screwed up and blems get more popular. It can be done but it's best done "in house". If you were having your boats sourced like JK and LL I'm fairly certain the molders would require and aluminum mold. But yeah... it can be done.