C-Forum

I believe that in some European countries that whitewater paddling is a high school sport. Some of our friends here can correct me on this if I'm wrong. I think, and I may be wrong, that canoeing is just as popular as kayaking in Europe. (Probably wrong).

more women in the sport-hades yeah!

As a FNG to OC1 I can only say that both TonyB and Gumpy provided me with the opportunity to try out thier boats when we were on the Tohickon. It was new to me and fun, so here I am.

Converting a kayaker doesn't count.

A flatwater - only paddler - 50%

Where it REALLY counts, for ALL of us, is getting folks who are not "paddlers" of ANY stripe out there (and preferably in SOME sort of CBoat ).

Some folks will gravitate to the wholesomeness that is the traditionally whitewater canoe (and some will even stick to being VERY traditional in Long Boats... or Grummans!). Other's will end up kayaking, and a select few will wind up in a C1 or C2 (not saying they are the smartest, either ).

But to Kaz's point - what do I do:
1) Try and keep this place afloat and be a place where ALL feel welcome, be they veterans or brand new paddlers. It's not easy.
2) Try and get folks out paddling who either haven't in a long while, or never. Never-ever's who are a bit unsure I find rafts and duckies are a GREAT whitewater introduction, and ease the step forward to open or decked boats (I don't own any kayaks or converted kayaks).
3) Loan my boats and gear to folks who want to keep trying after that introduction. I'm trying to get one of my boats back right now (if he was using it I wouldn't mind... but it's just sitting. He's in India now, so it's kind of difficult. Long story).
4) Be supportive of ALL paddlers, and friendly to kayakers I don't know (those that I DO know are well aware that I can smack-talk and bust on them for hours , but they, and I know it's all in good fun and we enjoy paddling together. I've gotten a number of them to CBoat the gorge too, or at least hop in a CBoat for a bit. Taught them respect for the craft very quickly:) ).
5) I've done demo's at sport fests in a pool of paddling, rolling, and such - mostly just showing folks how much FUN canoes can be (I didn't organize it, but was asked to help out and was happy to do so - and donate 100% of the fee they paid back to the club that did organize me and others being there)
6) Help support monetarily things like the Whitewater Derby, Canoe Movie, and the OC Nationals (started this year, very may well continue).


In my humble opinion the most important thing we can all do is have FUN, let folks know we are having FUN, and be welcoming so they considering joining us. We're not going to force anyone to "convert", and it needs to be THEIR idea to paddle (this is why I think it doesn't work so well with kids - some will love it and always paddle (like, um, me). Others will drift away, and perhaps never come back, or not until THEY have kids (and remember how much fun it was... if it was fun...).

Why do folks like Dooley? Yeah, he's good and he knows it, but like a lot of top notch CBoaters he doesn't flaunt it, and is humble. Another great example being Davey Hearn (or Kaz ). It makes folks approachable which is a HUGE step in the right direction.


I know we all have our preferences for craft (I prefer C1, FullGnarlz perfers open boats (or so I hear ), and some phenomenal paddlers prefer kayaks. In the end it doesn't really matter - we're all whitewater paddlers which the general population don't quite "get".

I'll hop back off the soapbox now and let someone else hop on

At least 5 of the last OC's I have owned have been sold to girls, a couple of them kayakers

Really Kaz, keystone. You've been influenced by Wendler haven't you.

Really Kaz, keystone. You've been influenced by Wendler haven't you.

Some of us have been at this game a long time We wish everyone would cboat. We wish everyone who boated would buy 5 boats a year. Lets be realistic canoeing is hard it takes time, in the age of video games, computers and instant gradifcation it is getting harder and harder to capture a young person eyes. If we cant make it look fun and stop all this petty bickering (everyone knows what I am talking about) the sport will fall off again. We need young folks like Narlz we need a few folks that are cocky. We need to stop acting like a bunch of old farts and have fun. Remember we are kids riding sleds down a hill, we just use water instead of snow. It is a hobby people it is a game just like we played marbles as a kid. I bet less then 5% of folks on the forum make their living in the sport. So I can see how some folks dont care if the sport grows. so lighting up take a chill pill and hug you boat rub you paddle and go boating

This coming Saturday, 1/9, I'm driving to my buddy's house to pick up his OC1. He's retired from whitewater boating. I'm taking it to the Nantahala so that nastynate can test drive it. We're going to meet at the NOC around 10 am. Anybody want to join in?

I like seeing boats find new homes. That's why I'm always posting those links of boats for sale.

I do a lot of the stuff Adam mentions, plus teach the beginning WW canoe classes our club offers. It's always amazing to me how many people don't continue in the sport after the classes. But when you do get one or two interested, it really pays to mentor them, help them progress to the stuff we all paddle. They then become part of the tribe.

I actually think some of the best recruits are older folks who have canoeing in their background. Like Kaz says, the teenagers move on. And people in their twenties start having babies and enter the lost years.

I also think it's great that we're all posting a lot of videos on Youtube. It helps give the sport some awareness.

All the women I boat with alot,except Shannon have bought a L'Edge. Today going thru a drive thru with the Ledge on top of the car on it's side 2 women who worked there wanted to try the boat.
Exposure. Accessibility. Get's people in boats.
I am glad ya'll run the Gnar! I enjoy up to class III-IV, but to get people in the sport those of us who still enjoy class II need to be accessible. To the average person class II looks doable.
I watch all the Gnar videos and really enjoy them, but would not show them to someone I am trying to interest in the sport till they are hooked.

Wendy brings up an excellent point there - different folks have different things that will interest them.

As Richard rightly pointed out, we need folks like Tommy, Dooley, etc... out there running the cutting edge stuff to get the young tough crowd riled up and wanting to hop in a canoe.

As Wendy pointed out, showing those video's to a different demographic might totally turn them off. There were a few folks I had interested in CBoating and paddling until they read a few issues of AW. I don't know how it is NOW, but a few years ago all everyone talked about in the articles was FEAR. New folks don't want to be scared (well, SOME of them do ), they want to have FUN. I think AW does a TREMENDOUS amount for paddling, but I wish they would be as good advocate and ambassadors towards newer paddlers as they are for the rivers.

And yes, I probably should be drinking as I type this . I take getting more folks in to paddling, and this community we have here, seriously (a bit TOO seriously sometimes). Out on the river I (and hopefully "WE") can just all have fun.

I am hopefully we can keep getting new folks to both ALF and the North Branch Armada (different strokes for different folks)... and that a lot of YOU will organize "armadas" on your home river (the North Branch was an offshoot of the Concordia, and I am exceptionally pleased that folks have decided to have one in Europe. I really need to make it over there one of these years! In a few more it should be much easier).

Wendy hit the nail on the head class v wont sell boats to newbies. Class three ran with grace and style will influence more peolpe WHy it looks fun. I would rather watch someone play a class 3 and look good then watch 10 people run class five with no style

I believe there are at least a few things that make whitewater boating growth-phobic.
the wife calls boating the most inconvenient sport, and she's fairly correct. we have to drive to get to our sport, this takes time and adds expense. Surely an extra detriment to kids trying to get into the sport.
also, the regional nature of whitewater is a hindrance, not everyone lives by nice runs, or any runs for that matter.
The spectacle of the extreme that fool gnar proposes, may be faulty too, at least in attractin younger participants. Now Im as wowed by people boatin hard tech water as the next guy, but I gotta suggest that watching mountain bikers at this years Red Bull Rampage throw 360s across a 60 ft. gap is gonna impress many more lay people than any boatin footage. Plus it dont matter where you live, u get a bike, find some woods and build some trails, or jumps, or whatever.
I guess then instead of bitchin about lack of new boat designs those with the desire for growth should be out lobbyin for more artificial parks. Were they more abundant, ther shorely would be more boaters, boat sales and designs.

I posted on FB a few days ago a new vehicle that will be used for taxis, etc that runs on compressed air. The factory is in Mexico for this European design. This could make our sport more green, and we could blow up airbags easily.