C-Forum

It's not just the length and width fella's... volumetrically the L'edge is much larger than both the Prelude, Spanishfly, and Option. Jeremy's new boat will be volumetrically bigger than the L'edge. The more volume... the more plastic required to mold it... the more plastic required to mold it the more weight there will be. About the only way I can imagine to even try to make a long PE type boat would be to injection mold it so you could tailor the material thickness so the plastic is thicker were it needs to be and thinner where it doesn't. Has anyone ever injection molded a ww-kayak or canoe yet? No? There's a reason why...








A decked L'edge is heavy due to the weight of the plastic on the decks... roughly 10lbs worth of it... if the Prelude had the same decks you could add +10lbs to it easily.


BTW... good luck trying to form that three-layer PE into anything I'd want to paddle.

Even without deck the L'Edge seems to be quite a bit heavier than the Prelude. from having drilled holes into both boats I knbow that the wall thickness of the L'edge is significantly higher than in my (still molded by Pyranha) Prelude. Not sure what the reason for that is, but I am sure that Craig knows the answer.
Isn't the 3-layer PE also rotomolded? If yes, then there shouldn't really be any reason why the same shapes as are being rotomolded in single layer PE can't be molded in 3 layers as well. But then again, I have never molded any boats, so I might be totally wrong...

TGG!

Far as I know they're using sheets... basically made the same way RX boats are formed. I could be wrong though....
http://www.spartech.com/plastics/markets/kayaks.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nova Craft does the multiple layers in a rotomolding oven for the SP3....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97RvZpm2KrQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The last time that method was tried... with a Prelude
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7963873&hilit=mobile+adventures" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

not everything works out perfectly on the first try though... maybe with more time to test and experiment, a better mold or changes to the mold, the cook cycles, blah, blah, blah... who knows what might've happened? sometimes the first run of boats just ain't right... it happens... not much else I can say.

Materials? sure... pick one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_kxSWeU ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Craig, I'm pretty sure they're all the triple-dump PE, like the Nova Craft video.

interesting to see how much heavier the triple dump boats are than the Royalex versions. Looking at the Old Town website, the Penobscot is about 28% heavier in PE compared to Royalex. Based on that, a PE Ocoee (41lbs in RX, per Bell's website) would be something like 53lbs - without outfitting.

oops...

http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/anatomy/materials/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

clickety-click

The Wenonah PE boats (Northfork and Southfork which are now only sold for rentals) are a three step rotomold also. They trap enough air in the middle more foamy layer to give some flotation to comply with coast guard regulations without adding foam or air tanks. Not sure how that is gotten around with some of the rec kayaks but that is the explanation that was given to me.

Having personally wrangled an Old Town Discovery 179 off of a pin on a class II creek I can attest that they just barely float. All that can be said is that they don't sink to the bottom.

RodeoClown wrote:Craig, I'm pretty sure they're all the triple-dump PE, like the Nova Craft video.

interesting to see how much heavier the triple dump boats are than the Royalex versions. Looking at the Old Town website, the Penobscot is about 28% heavier in PE compared to Royalex. Based on that, a PE Ocoee (41lbs in RX, per Bell's website) would be something like 53lbs - without outfitting.

i would settle with a 53# Ocoee made out of PE

philcanoe wrote:Too late = it's called a Old Town Discovery

Material Three Layer Polyethylene

11 foot 9

http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/gene ... y_119.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

15 foot 8

http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/gene ... y_158.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... oops

this was tongue in cheek satire and not a real suggestion as was said, just pick one up



(hint: if it has an internal keel - steer clear)

If an 11 foot PE Ocoee is 53 Lbs, then a 10' PE Ocoee would weigh in closer to 45lbs. (wink wink)

Or craft us one of these: http://www.wwc.co.uk/product_view.php?id=516

These are some products that would garner a lot of attention.

The triple-layer PE isn't going to be as tough as what we have now.

THe holmes is 10ft and 45 lbs and made of twin tex. Is PE lighter than twin tex?

avlclimber wrote:If an 11 foot PE Ocoee is 53 Lbs, then a 10' PE Ocoee would weigh in closer to 45lbs. (wink wink)

An 11ft PE Ocoee with wood gunnels would weigh a far bit more than 53lbs.



Keep in mind Dagger/Bell listed their boats weights without any outfitting.

From the Dagger catalog archives...

In 1997 the Ocoee is listed as "52lbs with vinyl rails & 46lbs with wood" (this was the "old Royalex")
http://dagger.com/assets/images/uploads/files/DG97.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In 2001... with the "new Royalex" 44/41lbs
http://dagger.com/assets/images/uploads ... DG2001.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bell lists the boat at 41lbs...?
http://www.bellcanoe.com/products/defau ... &catid=196" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ian123 wrote:THe holmes is 10ft and 45 lbs and made of twin tex. Is PE lighter than twin tex?

I believe that weight is listed as completely outfitted with saddle and airbags. Twintex is light.

believe that was Homes ... as in Homie

(muss be something about this thread - ann all the miss spell'n)

If you re the cboats spell checker, you ve got your work cut out for you.

the great gonzo wrote:not every PE OC1 is as heavy as the L'Edge. My Prelude, which is even a bit longer (9'5"), weighs about 48 lbs, and I am sure that, if I replaced the vynil gunwales with wood, it could drop by another 4-5 lbs. So 10ft + boat in the 50-55 lbs range seems possible to me.

TGG!

My thoughts exactly. Why is the Prelude so much lighter than the L'Edge?

Re. Why is the Prelude so much lighter than the L'Edge? I see Craig's explanation above. An OC1 doesn't have to have the volume of the L'Edge to be good. I would be happy with a longer prelude (with a flatter bottom).

Regarding lighter, non-Royalex boat materials. I think it will happen eventually. Maybe not PE but another material (certainly not Twin Tex). It's only a matter of time before the "holy grail" of OC1 materials is discovered. Just hope I am around to see it!