C-Forum

Have to agree with Walsh; whether like Bob Foote or not, he's still a dam good teacher. Sure he doesn't teach creeking etc., as someone described as "old school", however dated somepeople think his techniques are, the fundamentals of canoeing remain the same.
Efficient forward strokes (to get to the ledge you want to boof), minimal corrections (so you don't lose momentum, or blow off a wave), or proper rolling technique (for when things don't go right).
I don't see people dissing Tom Foster, and a lot of what he teaches is the same as Bob.
Personal dislikes of a boat or an individual should not be used to detract from someone who is trying to encourage more people to paddle.
By the way, I've taken clinics from Billy Harris as well as Bob, and garnered valuable lessons from both.
Be happy and paddle hard.
Geoff

mshelton wrote:Outstanding, you like bob, congrats . . . this post was originally about a new boat not being produced and a boat designed by bob, which looks much like an existing superior boat (read Zeph) . . .

Swing and a miss:

- The Zephyr is expensive as all get-out to produce. Even more than other new designs. Senior Foote would love to see one of his "turds" in Twin-tex, Esquif isn't buying it for the moment because it's too expensive. They produced one boat with universal appeal in the new material. More will come with time.

- The Paradigm (tries to) fill the niche for a hard-chined royalex boat. You can't buy a real Ocoee any more (royalite only) or a Viper. It's not as expensive to produce as a new-fangled plastic boat.

- The Taureau (same plastic as the Salsa) took a while to get out, but it ultimately a success story. I suspect whether the Salsa gets out is a factor of demand. (Without it being on the site, that demand may languish even more?)

- I'm sorry that you're on the cutting edge of the sport and the big names are holding you back. Anyone who increases interest in canoeing in general (Esquif, Foote, etc.)is a friend of mine.

Walsh out - SYOTR.

Walsh wrote: Swing and a miss:

- The Zephyr is expensive as all get-out to produce. Even more than other new designs. Senior Foote would love to see one of his "turds" in Twin-tex, Esquif isn't buying it for the moment because it's too expensive. They produced one boat with universal appeal in the new material. More will come with time.

WTF are you talking about?

The Zeph is a superior boat to the para-turd, the lines are very similar but it's 10pounds lighter and tons more durable.


So then the only reason to buy one would be that the buyer is a "fan-boy" of it's designer. Much the same way that the stammering rednecks choose their cars based on what yokel NASCAR driver drives one. If Esquif is exploiting this then its a smart move, just sucks that it was produced before the Salsa.

Mshelton: So tell us what you have done for the canoeing community. Designed boats? Taught? I am assuming you do more then just talk about canoeing on the internet. We would love to hear.

I have not been an old ignorant grumpy fart.

Why can't we all just get along?!

Butter! parkay! mshelton, you said so yourself!!

Think about the children!

[img]http://www.clcboats.com/images/peacecanoe_best.jpg[/img]

Geez
I take the family out to dinner and then pack the car for a weekend of paddling and then finally check the site and what to I find. Come folks....
msims's post is right on target....and I even like the photo!
The helmet and the dog iceing on the cake!
Just a lowly ADMIN letting you know to step away from the key board, take a deep breath and then go find something to paddle (boat wise)!
Paul C.

mshelton wrote:Outstanding, you like bob, congrats.

l2read

This post was originally about a new boat not being produced and a boat designed by bob, which looks much like an existing superior boat (read Zeph) which makes no sense to me and a few others unless there was/is an attempt to promote sales of the new boat by exploiting the bob fans and their willingness to buy a bob-boat.

If you like bob, fine, buy his boat or make a shrine to celebrate his greatness or name your child bob or your pet or your car or don't.

I think if I ever have a kid, I'm gonna call him Bobby Marshal... ...

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

This conversation is funny, it's nice to see all the different views on canoeing and the designers and stuff. I do disagree with one point made in this thread, namely that bob isn't into creeking etc. I think he was into that kinda stuff at one point, watch the video of him and mike yee droping huge water falls in their genesis'. He just has focused on one thing. I for one have taken several classes with the guy and he definetly took my paddling to a whole different place. You just have to understand he is there to coach you not be your buddy. As for esquif, I'm just glad someone is doing something for the sport. The bob bashing gets kinda old and no offense but didn't our parents teach us if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. I think we need a group hug.

For what it's worth, I did get to take a Paradigm for a quick flat water demo. Had my Zeph along for comparison. At 235lbs, I was mashing the Paradigm down pretty good. Throwing a bow wave up right at the tip of the boat. Hull speed wasn't bad. Comparable to my Zeph. Didn't spin as well as the Zeph at my weight. Still have about 18" of Zeph ends out of the water, none for the Paradigm. Paradigm had a little wider footprint in the water. More initial stability. Personally, even if money was no object, I'd keep the Zephyr. As juicy as this thread has become, I've never meet Mr Foote, and can offer no opinion about him. Where did all the Salsa talk go??

msims wrote:Why can't we all just get along?!

Butter! parkay! mshelton, you said so yourself!!

Think about the children!

[img]http://www.clcboats.com/images/peacecanoe_best.jpg[/img]

Damnit, now I want a double horned Viking helmet, I might even name it bob too.

ditto on the double horned viking helmet. Not only could you run over the Yakkers in the eddy you could lean out and gore the ones that got out of your way at the last minute.

I WANT A G.D. SALSA!!!!
AND CHIPS PLEASE
screw you guys I'm going paddlin

Dear Marshall,

I'm sorry I contributed to a hostile online environment. The truth is that I was bitter and looking for a fight, mostly because my girlfriend left me for one of her fat camp counselors, my pet ferret has diabetes, and the repo man had just towed away my 1976 El Camino.

Truth be told, I want a Salsa too (and do not want the other model discussed). I'm probably as much to blame as anyone for the fact that you can't buy them, because I'm cheap son of a gun and buy beat-up used boats instead of coughing up for new ones.

J

keez wrote: Efficient forward strokes (to get to the ledge you want to boof), minimal corrections (so you don't lose momentum, or blow off a wave), or proper rolling technique (for when things don't go right).
I don't see people dissing Tom Foster, and a lot of what he teaches is the same as Bob.
Geoff

I heard that what Foote used to teach was a long, inefficient forward stroke with a big emphasis on correction strokes. Apparently he has seen the light or maybe he read Tom Foster's book and studied his video, so if you see a similarity it's not because Tom got it from Bob.

Tom Foster has always taught an efficient forward stroke and co-designed one fine boat, the Outrage.

BTW, I haven't enjoyed a discussion this much since Louie's last flame fest.