12-step program for getting beyond class II - more tips?

[Shep]

FG, My general impression is you have had some mentors. And really, mentoring is just informal coaching.

I know not everybody is going to want to take lessons, but I want the intermediate canoeists to at least know that there is an option out there for getting more (effective) practice if they are willing to take it. That's how I've decided I can grow the sport.

Actually, your "Paddle like a Pro" clinic sounds a lot like my "Paddle like a slalom racer" clinic.

[Cheeks]

I remember talking with a guy who wanted to get better at whitewater canoeing. I suggested he take a class at MKC up in Ontario. He said no, he didn't want to, because all they teach there is how to do the forward stroke and the cross forward stroke, and that they don't focus on the "cool stuff" you need to run Class IV.

It's that type of attitude that can really stall your progression. I'm guilty of it myself from time to time. Taking a class helped me get started, and I'm at the point now where I feel another class would do me good. Hmm, perhaps the one being kicked around for Gauleyfest?

[TheKrikkitWars]

I remember talking with a guy who wanted to get better at whitewater canoeing. I suggested he take a class at MKC up in Ontario. He said no, he didn't want to, because all they teach there is how to do the forward stroke and the cross forward stroke, and that they don't focus on the "cool stuff" you need to run Class IV.

Depends what you mean "a class"

I'd take personalised coaching; but a class where you recive what amounts to instruction is going to be a waste of time...

If someone spent hours giving me forward stroke drills i'd feel cheated; if someone looked at me paddle, identified that my forward stroke was deficient, and told me what I was doing wrong, and what I could do to improve; I'd be happy...

As it is, my biggest problem is committing to my offside edge, and to a lesser extent, my weight placement when leaving pushy eddies on my offside; My timing is also a bit dodgy if I'm using a complex sequence of moves involving both on and offside strokes but I think thats related to my commitment to offside edge issues.

Because someone took the time to point that out I can work on it to progress, but as that description shows... it's fairly complex and specific to each paddler.

[mahyongg]

I am at the point where I feel comfortable enough in a class II / II+ environment that I feel its time for me to move up to III (which I have tried and found great fun, even though I was not as comfortable or performant as on a II). That said, I would take one on one (or two, three) coaching from an experienced coach anytime I can afford it.

A great thing would be intermediate+ courses as a "season starter" for at least a week, maybe in a warmer climate that prepares me for the season coming up at home. Or a "selected rivers" program for three to four days / extended weekend where some different rivers are run together with a coach, with a focus on river tactics, approach and of course also some little technique tuning while at it, but more like a "guided tour" to learn about different river characteristics, and how they play out different between class II & III (or whatnot). Both things offered by Heinz Goetze here in Europe and some others as well - sometimes with an initial "technique tuning day" up front to make sure everybody is up to par.

I also want to stress that the mental part of the game really is important and can be taught as well. In my eyes, a good coach should be able to adjust his/her coaching style to their pupils, part of which can lay the foundation for a great confidence - or destroy a tiny sprout that could have grown into a big tree, respectively.

Try any boat - not only the clearly challenging ones, don't forget a Nitro can be a challenge to move around for a tiny person too - you can get your hands on, switch around with folks on your trip or at the surf wave.

Learn some repair skills. Its interesting and can be fun if you look at it from the right way, and can prove very valuable at one point.. even if only fixing your peers boats (because you paddle so good .

Work on your Outfitting. Change things if you feel they are not right. Don't heed every advice you get about it (there are politics and philosophers out there) but think about it, hard. It may also help if you find yourself down river half-way with an anchor popped out.

Since paddling is not always only about the good fun, get your
rescue skills, rope knowledge (which ones to get rid of, for example ;D) or wilderness medicine skills up as well. There are courses for that, too. Also a nice addition to a group - if you're a certified SRT or finished a wilderness medicine course, it is going to be appreciated.

I personally would recommend to get into a Spark and build some initial stability into yourself, don't know about the hard chine thing really so far but I know that the Spark worked for myself...

Oh and Pat, I still like to swim a lot ;D

[Smurfwarrior]

When I say advance - key features are - hard chines, and no initial stability - so Prelude or Maxim

I wouldn't say "no initial stability" when mentioning those boats. A Zoom on the other hand, would fit the bill in that regard.

Challenge yourself, and when you get to a level of comfort, increase the demand until you are comfortable again and continue to step it up. Rinse, repeat.

Never forget the basics, hit the hardest lines you can and develop your roll to give you confidence.

Ref the Spark- I've been getting some seat time in mine and I'm finding it to be a great boat.

[dafriend]

So, new question for the masses: what kinds of "clinics" do you think would attract advanced beginner or intermediate canoeists? I have though about "Paddling like a slalom racer" or a "short-boat" clinic.Shep

When I was at the "advanced beginner" level a slalom clinic paid huge dividends. So much so that for the next three years I kept going back. I still can't win a race but at least did improve enough to actually finish the course.

For skills like using the water to your advantage, putting the boat where it needs to be, thinking ahead, and using ALL the basic stokes and putting them together in a multitude of combination nothing beats running gates.

Getting someone like Kaz, Eli, Andy Walker or any number of other accomplished slalom boaters to teach the clinic is a huge plus. Shoot, it's worth the price of admission just to be able to get a close up view of how these guys handle a boat.

The problem of course is that people are likely to think, "But I don't want to race. Have no intention of ever entering any such event. This isn't going to help me be gnarlzie" I don't know how you over come that. But then I've always sucked at sales. (I'm not greedy, self-centered or manipulative enough to be a good salesman.)

Dave

[Cheeks]

A Zoom on the other hand, would fit the bill in that regard.

More like a wooz

[we'll c]

We had a fortunate turn of events. TGG needed a teaching session for his university course and we were more than available. A half day on "off-side eddy turns" may not sound like "cool stuff" to some people, but it sure was a good step in improving my confidence with my weakest move and therefore working towards paddling Class III with more control and confidence (which for me equals FUN). It was much appreciated and I'll be looking for more opportunities to take a lesson or two, especially if the subject can be so nicely targeted to my needs! Thanks Martin!

Cheers,

Bob

[jakke]

From a certain skill level on, there is not exactly such a thing left as "formal instruction". It's more like, having a skilled instructor/coach around, pointing you at small details and giving you nice lines to try out.

I also think if you want to improve, you have to work on different area's:
- slalom style paddling
- surfing: side and frontal surfing
- if you can get your hands on a spanish fly or alike: try rodeo
- boofing, a really important skill.

I moved from a Viper11 to a prelude up to WW III. And yet, a year later I start to get the feeling that I start to paddle the prelude at that level. But I do analyse my own paddling quite a lot (video analysis), still take coaching (even though being a certified instructor), and push the limits on easy water (still don't have a reliable roll, so go for a swim on a regular basis).

I think the hardest part is to convince intermediate paddlers to go hard on easier sections. There are plenty paddlers around who say: I don't run that or that section, not enough water, too easy. But they don't catch every eddy, they don't go for minimum stroke rate, ... . They just want to go for harder rivers. And you see the same with real beginners, often they think: hey I can paddle straight, now I hit the river, no need for instruction. It's a matter of convincing the people that good instruction is a good investment.

btw, mahyongg, we should paddle more often together then, not this once a year thing . I want to play class III better. Just need to find a more solid paddler for safety, since the prelude is not the most reliable rescue boat... , at least not yet when I'm paddling it

[Smurfwarrior]

Another suggestion is to get your hands on William Nealy's Book "Kayak". It's simple illustrations of complex water dynamics and it's effects on a boat is priceless. Being able to look at harder water and get a good feel of what's going on and why will really help you gain the confidence needed to pick a few lines and try to predict how things will play out.

[Craig Smerda]

I think everyone should start out in squirt boats... then gradually move into more voluminous and stable boats as they progress to bigger and more complicated water.

[PAC]

I think everyone should start out in squirt boats... then gradually move into more voluminous and stable boats as they progress to bigger and more complicated water.

I think Craig needs to step away from the open can of adhesive glue and breath in some fresh air!

[Craig Smerda]

I think everyone should start out in squirt boats... then gradually move into more voluminous and stable boats as they progress to bigger and more complicated water.

I think Craig needs to step away from the open can of adhesive glue and breath in some fresh air!

zip ties... I'm all done with glue

[Shep]

I think everyone should start out in squirt boats... then gradually move into more voluminous and stable boats as they progress to bigger and more complicated water.

I think Craig needs to step away from the open can of adhesive glue and breath in some fresh air!

zip ties... I'm all done with glue

Okay, so it sounds like Craig needs to stop sticking zip ties up his nose.

Shep

[ESP]

Actually Craig is not to far off for those folks who want a real challenge. My squirt boat became my primary ride within six months of starting kayaking. You learn how to read water real fast or suffer the consequences. Of course I had great mentors like Paul Schreiner and Jim Snyder