"What are common pitfalls in the learning curve?"

Post by **PAC** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:35 pm

Funny thing ... this Sun, when I swapped out a boat with some for some of the river I switched sides (I'm a right and I paddled lefty... mostly on a easier section).
Only one who noticed I suxed lefty was was me... either that or folks were being kind.
The point is both side can be used... swapping is okay... but you should practice it if you thing your ever going to need to do it in a pressure situation.
As for learning I think being good one side is easier than working on two sides. But if you need to switch learn to do it quickly and effectively (limit that bow smacking) if it makes you feel better.

ian123 · Post by **ian123** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:47 pm

PAC wrote: As for learning I think being good one side is easier than working on two sides. But if you need to switch learn to do it quickly and effectively (limit that bow smacking) if it makes you feel better.

If you NEED to switch then you re not really good on one side are you?

CHOOSING to switch, now that's different.

Longboatin · Post by **Longboatin** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:25 pm

Using that same logic... if u need a crossstroke then ur not really good on one side are u?

ian123 · Post by **ian123** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:16 am

Nope. If you re paddling right-handed and you start taking off-side strokes, you re still paddling right-handed.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:11 am

I have no problem w/ switching hands - I watched Longboatin and Lengthy tear it up on the LY switching hands. I believe Lengthy when he says you can switch hands as fast as you can go to a cross stroke... although he does have years of practice doing it.

But for those that don't have a bombproof lightning fast switch...a good cross is what you need to get places.

It's nice being able to look at moves as 'moves' as opposed to 'onside move' / 'offside move'......practice. practice.

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:07 am

I saw a fella at Nationals this weekend who made good use of the hand switcherooo to get across an offside (for rightys) ferry that was in the meat. He was very fast too.. but the fastest fellas used crossbow strokes it seemed. I guess it all goes back to doing what works best for you, gotta paddle your own boat.

jakke · Post by **jakke** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:02 am

Define paddling?

The grades are more or less clear. But when do you paddle a given river?

To cut a long story short: I've seen it several times, people paddling class IV stuff, things that I've not been on. But when we are together on a class II - III river, they don't come close to the lines I'm running there.
Ok, it's my personal choice to go for the really hard lines on easy rivers. And from time to time I step up to see where I have to improve. The problem is I also do raise my "standard" about paddling. What was paddling for me 2 years ago, I would call surviving nowadays.

I think attitude is one of the major blocking points. Accepting that you have work to do on easier rivers, on flatwater, next to stepping up a grade. And be prepared to take a swim as a consequence. Rolling could make some lessons a bit more relaxed to learn though.

Oh, and I think switching is also a good way to improve your technique. It makes you rethink what you do. At least, if you're focused when practicing.

Longboatin · Post by **Longboatin** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:54 pm

Sorry ian I believe that might be rationalizing. U'd still be placing a paddle blade on the opposite side of the boat, regardless of how you are holding it.
I'm sure we can both paddle pretty well on one side ian, but heres the comp. lets do an entire river run paddlin say on the right. Then lets do it agin only paddlin on the left. Sure hope u bin practicin ur cross strokes!

Plus howz bout a real thoughtful argument aginst switchin... give us sumthin beside, take too long, have to practice, or the standard cboater discrimination. Think hard...not sure there any viable negatives too it.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:24 pm

I'll say this. In class V open boating...especially steep creeking switching hands in mid rapid/drop is very dangerous and not practical....however if you were equally as good on both side and could choose what Ur onside was going to be before a big drop to have the clutch move be on your onside....well that's the future of big drop steep creek open boating.

Longboatin · Post by **Longboatin** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:27 pm

exactly tomas

ian123 · Post by **ian123** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:19 pm

I think you re misunderstanding me, Longboatin. Being able to paddle well on your left and your right is amazing and would be very useful at times (as FG said). If YOU would rather switch mid-stream then that's great.

This thread is about pitfalls in the learning curve. My argument was that you should take the time to learn cross forward strokes even though they can be difficult. I don't have a "real thoughtful argument" against switching unless you are switching to avoid learning. Learn both if you want. Purposely avoiding learning new things would be a major pitfall in the learning curve.

clarion · Post by **clarion** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:30 pm

Can you claim to be able to paddle both sides if you can only do a cross forward with one of those sides? Hmmmmmm....

I can paddle both sides because I switched for a long time before "being saved." But I can only cross forward from one of those sides, so I don't consider myself to really be able to paddle both sides. Am I a sinner for thinking this way? Do I need more savin'?

Stingray · Post by **Stingray** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:45 pm

I agree with phil, there so many little things you can do that make the move easier and more efficient that are hard to see from another canoe or shore. Egos need to be put aside and questioned asked.
I agree with jakke too. If an effort to improve, a paddler should push themselves and take the hard lines on rivers they know, in addition they should use techniques they would use on harder rivers to develop them.
I don’t think it’s a good idea to switch side unless you have a roll on both sides, in hard rapids when you have a high risk to flip you should have the paddle on you rolling side, which is usually your stronger brace.
In general, I’ve heard the learning curve to be a good canoest is about five years, so getting out there and paddling a lot will help. Some boater don’t paddle very much and then jump right into the tuff stuff, I think this is a huge pit fall in the learning curve.
One other thing I didn’t see anyone mention is paddling slalom races for a number of years, is very helpful for the learning curve and prof is in the pudding as they say. Boaters winning event, freestyle, boater cross, etc…. have paddled slalom for a period of time and developed a strong stroke, there is always a few exceptions.
My 2 cent

Longboatin · Post by **Longboatin** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:45 pm

Yes purposely avoiding learning things is a major pitfall.

No misunderstanding...to each his own way.

i do have difficulty understanding why people feel the need to categorize switching a something not to do.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:02 pm

Because most paddlers will never get to the point of... "Ok I'm bored time to learn it all again"... With that being said... My right handed cross has graduated to class 3 worthy.... Will start working on right hand low brace next. Since that easier to learn