need dagger phantom info

[sbroam]

need dagger phantom info
by trevor bradian trevor bradian
what is the concensus on the dagger phantom? one of the shops around here has one that's not sold (no one wants ww open boats around here) that they are doing clearance on for $595. i heard it's basically a cross between the ocoee & the ovation, but i never talked with anyone who has paddled one. i would be using it mainly for river running (class II-III) with a little surfing along the way & hope to eventually advance into some class III creeking. i weigh approx 225 & don't know how my weight would affect the performance of the phantom. i would appreciate input from anyone who has experience with this boat
Posted on Jul 26, 2002, 2:29 PM

Buy it!!!
by David David
I asked a friend here, who just got a phantom this year, and he loves it - he says it shines on
class II-III, and is especially good at surfing and sticking in eddies, and rolls easily. He does also say that it's a bit wet in bigger water (IV+). He runs about 180 lbs. I'm guessing that at your weight, it might run a bit more wet for you, but you should be able to throw it around more easily. Will they let you demo it?

Safe Paddlin',
Dave
Posted on Jul 27, 2002, 5:33 AM

Phantom
by Mark Johnson
Trevor,
A paddler named Pete let me try his Phantom on the Nantahala River Last Year. I am 178 lbs. and found it to be very responsive and it surfed great. I did not paddle it long enough to get a feel for its speed or dryness.
Enjoy it if you buy it.
Mark
Posted on Jul 27, 2002, 6:05 AM

interesting boat
by Scott B.
I had a chance to paddle one for a half hour or more on some II+/III water; I'm about 225# and 5'10". It accelerates surprisingly well, but tops out quickly - not surprising for its length. It turns well, dropping into tiny eddies easily. It wave surfs well, but, I'm used to a hard chined boat (Viper 12, Slasher, various play boats) and this is not that, and it wouldn't carve like I was used to. With the softer chine, it was more forgiving in a hole. What I did not like at all was the apparent lack of primary stability - the boat rolled from rail to rail seemingly on its own - though it did have plenty of secondary. Again, I guess that's beacuse I'm used to flat bottomed, hard chined boats. At the time, it did not have foot pegs and I couldn't roll it (a big embarrassment!).

The owner of this boat is a little lighter and taller than me and had been paddling a Probe 14 - he loves this boat, and not just because it is 60 pounds lighter...

If you are used to round bottomed boats, snap it up. If you are used to hard chined boats, you will have some adjustments to make.

Good luck -

Scott
Posted on Jul 27, 2002, 8:25 AM



Interesting Boat
by DCC
While the chines are softer then an Ocoee it is a flat bottom boat.
Posted on Jul 27, 2002, 9:50 AM



Re: Interesting Boat
by Kev
The Chines are much harder than the Rival or Ovation so it's like a cross inbewtween the boats.
Posted on Jul 27, 2002, 10:07 AM



Re: Interesting Boat
by Scott B.
Though it is a flat bottomed boat like the Ocoee, it sure felt different to me. The Ocoee is definitely edgier, but you encounter the secondary stability fairly early. To "relax", I just let it sit a little over to one side or the other - not unlike how my Viper handles.

In the Phantom, I didn't feel the secondary kick in until the rail was nearly in the water. I didn't feel I could relax in it. However, I'm probably near the top end of the weight range and that might very well affect it's handling; also, I only had about a half hour to get used to it.

Scott
Posted on Jul 27, 2002, 1:47 PM


Re: Re: Interesting Boat
by DJ
I totally agree with Scott. I have paddled Frankies boats for years, Viper, Ocoee, Skeeter and paddleing the Phantom felt like I was paddleing a log. It would wallow from side to side never wanting to stop any where inbetween. My observation is there are two types of canoers equelly dedicated to flat or round boats. It depends on what you like. IMO nothing can match an Ocoee for a traditional canoe. Dennis
Posted on Jul 28, 2002, 10:20 AM



Comparison Article Re. Phantom
by Leslie
Bob Foote designed the Rival, Phantom and Genesis. Here's a link to an interview on his website about the design of the Phantom, including comparison photos of the hull & waterline of the Ocoee and Phantom.

Everyone has their preferance (I like my Phantom!) but this might provide some additional thoughts for you to consider as you compare them.

http://www.bobfoote.com/technique_tips/phantom.htm

Good luck!
Posted on Aug 6, 2002, 5:57 PM