Viper Paddling

jKelly-Rand · Post by **jKelly-Rand** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 5:18 pm

After a long winter w/o paddling big water I took the Viper out on the Lower Millers Sunday. It was running at 2600 cfs. A friend paddled an Atom. We paddled about a mile or less of the river before I decided to bail. I felt I had no control in the 4' waves and could never get ahead of the current. I didn't feel this way on the West River last fall so I am looking for some experienced advice on how to paddle this boat. There was a pretty strong head wind as well. I wasn't able to drive to where I wanted to go especially across the current. This made it hard to catch eddies and so forth. I believe that if I was in the Atom I would have been more comfortable and able to cross the current.

til next
JIm

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 7:09 pm

Greetings...

More forward speed and paddling is what you need. The Atom allows you to "cork" through a rapid (e.g. you don't always need to paddle, assuming the rapid isn't that difficult), while a Viper you have to paddle and have a little forward speed to maintain control. You have to be "offensive" in your paddling-going where YOU want to, rather than where the water wants you to. FWIW IMhO this is what happened on the Hudson last year-the stuff you could cork through OK in the Atom you did fine on...its the rapids with the moves you had to make you had a little trouble. We've all been there, and thankfully, the fix is one that's easy to stomach-more paddling!

.

Kelly-Rand · Post by **Kelly-Rand** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:00 am

That could be. I didn't feel like I could maintain my balance and reach aggressively. This may be from my years in the open boat. Then I would just turn the bottom into the wave and drive where I wanted. In a C-1 the shallow chines sink in and are grabbed by the current. The aren't any local rivers with a current strong enough to practice. How did others transition from drop and pool rivers to paddling the Dead, Hudson, and Lower Millers at 2600 cfs. I may have the opportunity to paddle one of these rivers once a year. I would like some discussion on this topic because I need to setup a regiman to focus on as I paddle the lesser rivers.

KNeal · Post by **KNeal** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 2:49 pm

As I remember, the Viper is a nice, long boat with sharp chines in the stern starting behind the cockpit. Yep, that will make the boat feel real flippy at first. You're going to have to unlearn your open boating habits (sitting back in the saddle, plowing through stuff/kyackers and into eddies, and leaning the boat with your whole body into the turn). Now, you need to learn how to keep your torso upright while letting your hips move with the boat. Anytime you tip your upper body in the direction your boat tips, instant flip.

Try pointing your torso in the direction you want to go in, especially when going into and out of eddies. Lean your torso in that direction, but let your hips control how much angle your boat tilts (try just keeping the hull flat or leaning SLIGHTLY into the turn for now). REMEMBER to put your body weight DIRECTLY onto your butt and saddle. Keep your weight off your knees. I practice in my slalom boats with trying to lift my knees while leaning forward and especially while making turns.

I'll stop here for now. Good luck, keep practicing and let us know how you are doing.

KNeal

jKelly-Rand · Post by **jKelly-Rand** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:36 am

I hope to demonstrate my improvement on the NB.

Jim

jKelly-Rand · Post by **jKelly-Rand** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:19 am

Didn't do any down river stuff this weekend, got some house work done. I did go out and practice at a slalom course for a couple of hours. I made one nice pivot turn that got the bow up in the air, and several rolls attempting the same. There are several small eddies on this course that I had difficulty turning into. The bow would dive under and stall. So I began trying to lean back on the back deck and do a far back duffeck (sp) to lift the bow. I wasn't very successful, at this point I was cramping up, but is this the right approuch?

KNeal · Post by **KNeal** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:18 pm

There are two methods used in a c-1 to implement a stern squirt: the one you are using with the duffeck is the type of method that slalom racers use when executing their upstream gate moves. One way to make that method work is to paddle into the current about perpendicular to the flow and when the bow starts pointing downstream, plant the paddle in the flow or eddyline, rotate your torso and head in line with the shaft, put all your bodyweight in the saddle (no weight on your knees), tilt the upstream edge into the current and thrust your upstrem hip into the current while trying to point your knees toward the paddle. If you paddle left, then you would tilt the right edge of the stern into the current and push with your right hip while rotating and leaning your torso to the left. The cool thing about this method is when done correctly, you can keep your torso forward towards the bow instead of leaning back over your back deck. You really have to develop your balance of leaning your torso one way while tilting your lower body/hips the opposite way.

The other method for engaging a stern squirt is essentially the same as the first method. What is different is how you plant your paddle. Instead of planting on a high brace, you do a stern pry instead. This method (when done effectively) WILL get your bow to point skyward and when you are good enough, you can "pogo" down the river (a Dave Miller concept).

. When the bow starts pointing downstream, tilt your upstream edge as you rotate and lean your torso toward the back of your boat. At the same time, sweep your paddle as far back to the back of the stern as you can, plant the blade and pry the blade firmly away from the stern. What should happen is the blade actually does not move through the water, rather the blade remains in the same place as the stern sinks under and you are continuing to rotate your torso (and head!) toward the paddle.

The stern squirt takes lots of practice to get correct, but will be worth the effort when you nail one that points skyward and STAYS skyward. The nice thing about your Viper is that the stern is specifically designed to squirt. Remember that it is a long stern and takes a little time to sink under, unlike the plastic "spud/jug" playboats that are designed to be quick. When I paddled "Sir" Adam's Acrobat down the NB Potomac at last year's Armada. I spent a lot of the time seeing how long I could keep the boat stalled on a stern squirt

! The only consequence with that was my abs were cramping and spasming the whole night through the next morning from that exercise, but what a great time I had!

! Work on little squirts at first to get used to the feeling of tilting your upstream edge into the current and rotating your torso toward your paddle. Your paddle method will get you results, just take the time and develop your feel of the edges and sense of timing.

Keep us posted.

KNeal
(Boy! That was a LOOONG post!)

Kelly-Rand · Post by **Kelly-Rand** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:22 am

Thanks Kneal. Your description is very helpful in visuallizing the moves. The water is warming up and I will beable to practice more now. What I also want to know is given the longer length of the Viper what is the method for catching a small eddie that you are hitting just to the side of straight on. In the Atom I just go for it because it spins an a dime. The viper tends to stall at right angle to the current. I'm thinking I have to initiate something like a flat spin to avoid slicing into the flanking current. It seems that if I just do as you describe for catching the current to do a stern squirt and not lean the upstream edge with my hips that I will be getting there.

til next
Jim

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Thu May 01, 2003 3:59 am

Hey KNeal, I now have another way to squirt. Thanks! I took the Big EZ out this afternoon & actually made it to the 1st bridge abutment! (flow is down to 30,000cfs, I think they closed one of the floodgates

)

The 1st method that you described was new to me & it worked on the 1st attempt.

It is super stable. It allowed me to maintain the squirt much longer than I had before. Also I landed upright much more often than I had been. The neat thing is that if I didn't land flat I would fall off to my onside, where I'm already set up to throw the bow down!

See ya at the Armada!
Mike W.

Kelly-Rand · Post by **Kelly-Rand** » Tue May 13, 2003 5:14 pm

I was in the comfort zone at the armada. Enjoyed visit with Mike W. I had no problems with the waves on the NB so my earlier troubles are atributable to a long winter and fear of cold water. For those who tried the Viper, would you add one to your stable? I will be busy learning to paddle it to its potential for the next year or so.

til next
JIm

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Tue May 13, 2003 8:17 pm

Jim,

We did have a good visit. It's so neat to be able to finally put faces with names. Thanks for letting me try your Viper. It's a neat boat.

I never really got it to squirt, but that eddy-line was on my off-side & not real strong. I think that with a stronger current differential & spinning towards my onside I could get it with a good stern pry. The boat is super stable & with just a little time in it I think I'd be comfortable running anything that I'd run in my Cascade.

Mike W.

C-Forum

Viper Paddling

Viper Paddling

Vipers...

Some suggestions

Update

2 methods with the paddle

Thanks KNeal!

Yeah, I'd add one to the stable.