felt & epoxy

[MotorCityOC-1]

How little West System Epoxy is too little when installing kevlar skid plates?

I just did a practice plate on my old Ovation. I was trying to use as little epoxy as possible in order to keep the plate from being heavy and brittle. I had done a skid plate before by soaking the felt in the resin and then squeezing as much of the excess resin out of the felt as I could with gloved fingers. I did the cling film trick and it looks great and hasn't shattered- but looks heavy.

For the plate I put on recently, I slathered a bunch of epoxy on the hull, pressed the felt into the epoxy, and where the felt didn't look saturated I dabbed at it with more epoxy until it looked uniformly saturated- but only just. It looks pretty good, seems to have adhered well, and definitely looks lighter weight and less brittle- BUT IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE FELT! Despite using cling film again, the finish is fairly nappy, there are some small spots that look like they weren't fully saturated with epoxy, and the whole thing looks like it might be pretty "grabby." I don't see how that material could be a slick as Royalex, and I'm worried that if I use the same technique when I do the skid plates on my Phantom (which I bought primarily for sliding down steep piles of wet rocks) that the stern plate will catch.

I did the stern plate on the Ovation mainly as a practice run for putting lightweight plates (also with pigment in the epoxy) on my Phantom. Problem is, I can't tell from looking at the finished plate whether it's any good or not- and I'd like to avoid paddling the Ovation to find out

So...

Is a skid plate with a still felt-like feel acceptable? Will it hang up boofing on low volume creeks?
Can/should I retroactively dab more epoxy on the felt where it seems not fully saturated? Given that the "soak and finger squeegie method" that I used long ago on the bow skid plate is easier, and doesn't seem to make the plate so brittle that it cracks upon impact, is the resin-light method that I tried recently even worth it for the modest savings in weight? What could the weight difference btwn a set of resin-heavy and resin-light skid plates be? 5-10 ounces? Mind you, I'm one good sized sandwich away from being too heavy for the Phantom, so weight savings is pretty important to me.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Guest]

Kevlar must be thoroughly saturated, then alllowed to sit in the saturated state for a couple minutes, then the excess resin removed using a corrugator or plastic squeegee.

Your fuzzy skid plate is probably resin starved. That makes it weaker than a properly wet out part. You can paint it with more resin and lightly sand it smooth, but that will increase only the weight and not the strength.

When the skid plate wears/breaks off, do another one with a thorough saturation, short wait, and excess resin removal.

Some people skip skid plates on new boats, applying them only after the hull has been worn into the ABS layer. Just don't let the wear get into the foam core.

[Jim Michaud]

John Sweet sells a thinner Kevlar felt in sheets. I use this thinner felt with two layers of woven Kevlar cloth underneath the felt when I use skid plates. I can't keep the felt from breaking, especially in the stern, when I go creeking but the Kevlar cloth helps keep it together.

[Guest]

John Sweet also has instructions for doing skid plates on his website. Interestingly, it says:

" Lay the felt into the epoxy and saturate it fully, adding as much epoxy as necessary to achieve saturation. Allow it to cure and you are ready to go!"

[MotorCityOC-1]

That's what I thought I did! Turns out saturation was NOT achieved. I'm gunna dab more epoxy into the spots that look like they could use it and see what happens.

For my Phantom I shall return to soaking the felt in the epoxy and then squeezing out as much excess resin as possible. If anyone has a patented method that squeezes out more (but not too much more) resin than latex gloved fingers can, I'd love to hear it. Apparently the type of squeegie I need can be purchased at an auto parts store?

I'm sick of this crap. Who wants to go creekin'?

K

[ezwater]

For stronger, lighter, and more durable skid plates, use several layers of S-glass, or start with a Kevlar layer and finish with layers of S-glass. Of course the pieces of the plate should be cut on the bias, with the LARGEST going on first, and then successively smaller layers. Probably four or five layers is enough, unless you are covering ABS which is mostly worn through. Purists scrape off the vinyl from the ABS for better adhesion.

Kevlar felt is not used for its structural suitability, but rather because Kevlar felt holds together well when soaked with resin, and a felt pad can go on in one step versus several for a cloth plate. And, of course, there is that Kevlar name, but S-glass is certainly better as an outer layer, both in compression strength and in scraping over things without hanging up or getting fuzzy.

I believe that some, perhaps most, Kevlar pad kits are now coming with a more flexible polyurethane resin. West is great epoxy, but perhaps too rigid for a thick Kevlar felt pad. I have a Bluewater (Upstream Edge) heat-cured epoxy tandem canoe which came as a demo with thin Kevlar felt pads. The resin in these is relatively soft, unlike the totally hard epoxy of the hull itself. Urethane, in my opinion. I will have to e-mail Gary Barton and ask him.