Practicing rescues & canoe-over-canoe

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:40 pm

Hi open boaters,

I came into ww from a tripping background, and starting paddling ww with other canoeist who also started with flatwater skills. We've gradually moved into class III and III+ ww (in steep & cold BC rivers). While we've improved our paddling skills & our gear for the ww, but our rescue skills probably aren't as strong as we step up to more complicated rapids.

When we started paddling class II+ ww, we were often using canoe-over-canoe. But as people began to learn to roll and self-rescue well, we do it less, and now sometimes we're unsure of when/how to assist. And we don't practice much.

Another challenge is that in any group a few "alpha" paddlers always tend to lead and to do all the rescues, so it's hard for the middle-of-the-pack paddlers to gain experience and confidence with the decisions and the skills - I think this is a common challenge for canoe clubs.

So, in continuous class IIIish ww, what do you & your partners do to assist somebody who's over? Does anybody use canoe-over-canoe? Do you discuss it and practice it with your paddling partners?

I know a key on some harder rapids is to scout and set safety. And we do carry pulleys etc. for boat recovery (which we should also practice). But I'm mostly interested in group dynamics/techniques for assisting a swimmer in continuous class III.

Thanks.

PY.

Open Gate · Post by **Open Gate** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:35 pm

Hi,

Canoe over canoe in class III rapids I think is looking for trouble.

In strong current, rescuing a weaker paddler that missed the throw ropes, I'll take care of the paddler, go to him, have him/her hold on to the canoe and paddle them to shore. Then go after the boat and then do the canoe over canoe on the flats at the end of the rapid.

Of course the alpha paddlers in a group always reacts faster and are better skilled at rescuing others and boats. We have the same issues in our club, alway the same doing everything no hands on practice for any one else.

I remember organizing a Z drag to dislodge a pinned canoe(from another group) and some average paddlers in our group wanting to do the Steve Thomas and rope set up. The fact of the matter is it was hard to get to the boat, strong skills were required just to get there, boat was in deep water and everything about this rescue was complexe. Took us less then an hour for our alpha paddlers to get it out of there(boat wrapped around the rock both ends were touching).

I don't know if the average paddlers in our group could have done this rescue and how long it would have taken and at what risk.

This being said, I beleive the alpha paddlers should always be in charge of the rescues and delegate as logic dictates with regards to the safety of the rescuers, their experience level and the urgency to do the rescue.

Not an easy call for sure, interesting subject !

Paddle Power · Post by **Paddle Power** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:45 pm

Here are some ideas that I copied from an article that I wrote several years ago, published in our local newsletter.

➢ The art of Active Rescues (or is it a science?).
Having a rescue boat and back-up boat.
We learnt and practiced how to rescue a big boat with a small volume C1 or K1. Drive the bow of the boat under the overturned boat, grab the overturned boat. Now lift and rotate the upside down boat pivoting the far end (the air bags or deck) on the water. (This is an all-in-one motion.)
➢ Yell For ONE MORE ROLL. And yes, we did a great deal of yelling!
Actively helping the roll by grabbing the gunwales etc and pushing them down with your hands or a paddle.

I'll add some other ideas.

With a ww oc you can do a really quick c-to-c rescue by lifting one end of the canoe and flipping it while the other end pivots on the airbag/deck. Not a fully canoe over canoe but much faster. You can get most of the water out.

The other important thing is to actively practice and be ready to rescue. In your case, try always sending two canoes to rescue, and let the alpha be the backup rescue boat.

Work on supporting self-rescues. Have the rescue boat float close to the swimmer and guide her/him to safety.

Don't forget to set up land based throw bags where appropriate.

While on the water, is it possible to stay closer to one side so that the rescue is always to that side? IE plan ahead.

When I rescue someone or something I find it is sometimes helpful to have someone guiding me/yelling at me. OR to have a second boat close just in case. Or to have a second boat close to help get the swimming boat ashore.

Good Luck, and good for you for asking.

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:10 pm

Thanks for the replies...

The rope is the obvious one solution, but I'm thinking about the scenarios when somebody swims unexpectedly and everyone's on the water.

(One time recently instead of dealing the tandem swimmers/boat immediately, I paddled ahead and got out with my rope, thinking this would get them out fatser than any on-the-water rescue - the rapid they were in wasn't a concern, but I didn't want them to start into the next one. The boat was a Dimmension that could've used more air bags, so I didn't think any canoe-over-canoe would work quickly. As it happened, and I couldn't find a bank with decent footing anyway, and someone pushed them in at about the same place, though it did involve some putting down of feet in the current

).

We're trying to balance canoe-over-canoe vs. other on-the-water options. For the most part, it's people in 10' - 13' OCs, perhaps the odd C-1 and the odd tandem. Brian, I'll try those pseudo c-o-c technques of partially emptying it by rolling it on its end bag.

On many rivers here, the flow is continuous and the water is ice cold, so an argument can be made that paddling or bumping somebody to shore (unless it's low-volume and/or pool & drop) can take way too long compared to a good canoe-over-canoe.

Anyone have good success with canoe-over-canoe? Or is assisting the swimmer the only way in class III?

PY.

Open Gate · Post by **Open Gate** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:23 pm

How bout holding the side of the swimmers canoe for them to climb back in(presuming he or she is fit enough to climb back in), let the boat lean towards the swimmer so it's easier to get back in and scoop them in. If there's a third boat they can hold the other side of your boat helping your stability while your doing this exercise.

This would be the quickest and safest way to put the paddler back in the boat in class III water.

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:45 pm

I agree that climbing into a supported boat can be pretty good, and it can done after a canoe-over-canoe, or into a full boat.

One instructor here doesn't like that, and doesn't teach it, because not everyone has the arm strength to climb back in that way, and it can expose/dangle your legs to the bottom (he prefers to have the swimmer roll/flop back in from a position between the boats, which keeps everything near the surface). Personally, I think that believing there's only right way to do just about anything is not helpful, and we need to realize that there will be different options for different situations.

When paddling with a new group once, I went in between the boats to get back in, and my rescuer had expected me to climb in over the outside and basically wanted to know WTF I was doing between the boats!! So, it's worth sorting out these preferences.

As described, I agree that a good way for an extra boat to support a rescue is to go hold the outside gunwale of the rescuers boat (and not distract anyone by also getting involved with the rescuee).

Thanks again for the comments & suggestions, my friends are planning a practice day and these are all good options for us to discuss and practice.

- Pulling the swimmer
- Assisting the swimmer with bumping/pushing
- Supporting a crawl-in into a swamped boat
- Canoe-over-canoe & crawl-in or flop-in
- The C-1 nose-under c-o-c
- Partial "c-o-c" by rolling it on an end bag
- Supporting rescuers stay to the outside of the rescue boat
- Be close to assist with the finishing of a roll (if you can do it without interferring in the roll)

Other thoughts on techniques and when to use which?

PY.

MikeOC1 · Post by **MikeOC1** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:49 am

I was a student in a canoe class this past summer and flipped to my off side unexpectedly from a strong eddy (have no roll). The instructor (in a outrage) yelling at me what to do performed a boat over boat, he had my boat (outrage) over his gunnel and emptied, dropped back in the water held onto the gunnel while I kicked and pulled myself in. It took a serious effort for me to pull myself in, but I was shocked how quickly I was back in my boat. Whether the swimmer could pull themselve back in the boat would be an issue. But I think gettin in is more technique than strength and can be practiced.

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:20 am

Good to know some other insturctors/paddlers use canoe-over-canoe.

And good points:

- The rescue you do depends on the capabilities of the swimmer, which you should therefore know or assess, and
- We also need to practice being rescued

PY.

knu2xs · Post by **knu2xs** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:11 am

In decked slalom boats more now, I've been doing a lot of these. In open boats, I tend to favor the lifting of one end with a quick flip trick. It gets 90% and is pretty fast, especially with the newer smaller open boats. With any rescue, nobody wants to camp out in the water, hence the faster paddlers usually talking lead.

oc1paddlr · Post by **oc1paddlr** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:04 am

i like the quick flip trick but boat over boat does a better job of getting water out if you have the time. i love the climbing back in part-that can be a hoot. what i do, if two rescue boats are in play, is get behind the swimmer/person trying to climb in so they can get a foot hold on my boat(my off side so i can lay out a counter brace) and kick or push themself up.

oc1paddlr · Post by **oc1paddlr** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:19 am

oops,well not so much as kick or push, but a lift

Jan_dettmer · Post by **Jan_dettmer** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:56 am

Hey,

boat over boat on continuous grade 3 is not a good idea at all.

I usually just do the standard: Get the paddler out of the water. I paddle over, get them to hold on to the boat and make them help by swimming. Once that is done, chase the boat. Once i get to boat, I turn it upright, clip it with pigtail, drag it into eddy or slackwater.
If it is busy water, I just push the right side up boat with my boat. Or sometimes paddle up to it and give it directed pushes, so that it moves where I want it.

If there is several paddlers in the rescue, we divide tasks. One person after the gear, one after the paddler. With a good crew, that happens automatically, depending on who is where.

It is always good to have at least one strong paddler in a boat when shore rescue is set up. That way, you can chase swimmers or gear.

I think it is also important to learn ones own lessons. At some point one may wanna go out with ones buddies without the alpha dogs and learn the lessons. Obviously the water should not be at your comfort limit but well below. Managing ones own decisions and rescues makes for strong paddlers.

I paddled the upper Cheack once at a pretty good flow with 3 kayakers I did not know before. 2 swam and the third did not know the river. It took me from triple drop to the take out to get the last boat into an eddy. ...It can definitely get entertaining to chase gear on class 3 and up.

Cheers, Jan

Ps: Yes, do practice setting up z-drags once you progress to more difficult water. You must know the setup like the back of your hand. Unfortunately, extraction of a paddler is too often too slow. But being very very fast is essential.

Paddle Power · Post by **Paddle Power** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:37 pm

Excellent point Jan, that being very very fast is essential.

When doing any kind of rescue, if a paddler is getting back into a canoe, always tell them which end is the bow so that they get back into their canoe in the ready position--in a position to paddle.

When rescuing, I often take a swimmer's paddle, hold their boat, yell and point to the bow, and once they are in, pass them their paddle, and yell, point, and push them towards the nearest eddy.

Post by **sbroam** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:58 pm

We used a boat-over-boat precisely once in whitewater - We had about 10 canoes worth of Boy Scouts running the river when one flipped in a long, big water class II rapid in a very wide section of river. We were able to right the canoe and get the paddlers back in and on their way rather quickly. We used two rescue boats to do the boat over and flank it when they re-entered.

I really can't see that being a common occurence, but we were glad we'd practiced it with them. Of course, we thought we'd be applying that on the lake...

Edit - I've flipped, swam, righted (sometimes with boat over), and reentered (with assistance) in moving water between rapids. The above instance with the scouts was the only time with a full on boat over boat *in* what you'd call a rapid.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:22 pm

As stated perviouly, I don't think there is one right way...there's several... each depending on who (is there) what (happened) when and where (it's happening)...

...the most important factor I consider (usually) is which way will the situation be cleared/cleaned up the quickest...sometimes it's even a 'forget the boat, now where did it go' situation ... it seems usually the first person gets the swimmer, and then the next gets the boat...

personally i prefer for somone to lean on my gunwhale, and i'm back in - in seconds...works really good for decked boaters, they just throw a elbow into the boat... even had a REALLY GOOD squirt boater do this at the bottom of Iron-Ring (Gauley), could'nt even see him... just part of an arm and elbow -n- heard a shout get in, "You were look'n good - almost made it".. was back on to shore before the wave train was half finished... from woodstock to before the water piles up.. that's pretty quick! (he was still there playing around)

of course there's been times (ike someone said b4) where the swimmer couldn't get in, and it took longer than it if he had swam to shore

that grab one end flip, is geat for speedy water removal method...this and locking his outwhale-under-my outwhale, by squeezing them together is my normal-favorite (the two done 2gether)