Technique: Hole Riding vs. Wave Riding

Skip On Ocoee · Post by **Skip On Ocoee** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:20 am

As the snow melts and the river flows get ridiculous. I start collecting all my gear together getting ready for some new paddling adventures, ANYWAY, i need some help and advice about hole riding and wave riding and different techniques for having good stable rides.

Hole Riding:

What constantly happens to me is that my bow buries into the green, to try to prevent this, i lean back as far as possible (and visa versa for when i am back surfing) but, when ever i watch the pros in the competitions they never seem to lean back as vigoursly as me. I also notice that when i do this, i risk some potential control over my boat.

I know that hole riding is very fast pace, i'm pretty comfortable initating moves, what annoys me though, is having to struggle to gain control of my boat before initiating any moves. Sometimes i fail at gaining control and wash out. Any advice helping me on this would make my upcoming paddling season INFINITELY better.

Wave Riding:

I have yet to experience and real waves(just a small local wave/hole), but i plan on making a couple trips to Montreal to Lachine Rapids and also various places with in a 10 hour drive for a couple days of some awesome big wave paddling. BUT, before i just go ahead and jump into the mammoth waves of Lachine or Mini-Bus or any others. Whats the technique i should be using? What do i want to avoid doing? Once again, the pros make the big-air blunt look pretty easy (granted, thats why they are professionals

) but nonetheless, i would still like to be able to keep a controlled ride on a wave before i go and try throwing around some moves. once again, any advice would help out my season this spring/summer immensely.

Looking forward to the replies
Thanks,
Skip On Ocoee

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:28 am

What kind of boat are you paddling?

Bow into the green water in a hole usually means the boat is too big for the hole or you need to get it sideways faster. Learn to get comfy on your offside as well.

Have you seen the cboats.net video section... it maybe a good place for you to start during winter.

This place is give and take... the more info you can give us... the more you can take away.

Oh... and get yourself to ALF... you could even win a boat.

Skip On Ocoee · Post by **Skip On Ocoee** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:21 pm

hey craig,

I paddle a new Wavesport Project 52. And by the way what is ALF?

Skip On Ocoee

cbcboat · Post by **cbcboat** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:56 pm

I'm certainly not an expert so take this as you will. As far as 'hole' riding, the front surf is not the easiest to do, most people get stuck in a side surf. Try to keep the boat moving laterally constantly. as far as leaning back, you will pull yourself up the face of the wave and then the pile will actually push you back down the wave, usually somewhat fast, which is why you are pearling. Again, try to keep the boat moving laterally, whether carving or spinning. Also try to keep your posture fairly even, if possible. When you feel yourself being pushed down the wave faceb (or hole) is when you should try whatever move it is you want to try. This also applies to wave riding. As for the wave riding, a lot of the same will apply, depending on the wave. Moving laterally will pull you 'up' the wave, then when you start 'down' the face is when to throw down. Sometimes its hard to just keep control of the boat in a front surf, especially on a large bouncy wave. Remeber front surfing is still cool.
Good Luck, there are some other folks on here that should have a much better understanding of how this all works.
B

Paddle Power · Post by **Paddle Power** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:51 pm

re pearling,
think about the basics, keep moving (even a little displacement makes a big difference), weight shifting, and use your edges. Try looking around a lot and have your body/boat follow your eyes, constant motion.
I find on little waves that small boats feel big and pearl if they are not kept in motion.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:37 pm

Skip On Ocoee wrote:hey craig,

I paddle a new Wavesport Project 52. And by the way what is ALF?

Skip On Ocoee

Cool... I can't imagine anything on the Ocoee that you couldn't play in with that boat. Are you trying to front "surf" a hole?

Ain't
Louie
Fest

http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7957939 & http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7958152

liskahon · Post by **liskahon** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:19 pm

Some tips are on my blog... I plan to do a lot more about bigger waves but this will be done when I get the footage from the Nile...

Hole riding- The key thing is that u have to learn how to get to the foam pile which is where you start all the moves... http://c1freestyle.blogspot.com/2007/03 ... asics.html

It works pretty much the same in a hole the best way is to actually get almost out of the hole into the shoulder (Every hole has one) and than as you begin to flush downstream surf back into the hole to the foam pile ... Coming down from the foam pile you can initiate a loop...
http://c1freestyle.blogspot.com/2007/05 ... -loop.html

The big air moves on big waves are actually not that difficult... If you can master small blunts on small waves you will for sure throw air blunts pretty easily after a few days (maybe even rides)of training on a big wave...
http://c1freestyle.blogspot.com/2007/11 ... nside.html
http://c1freestyle.blogspot.com/2008/02 ... house.html

This article is also VERY good http://www.riotkayaks.com/teamblog/2006 ... uvers.html

liskahon · Post by **liskahon** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:22 pm

BTW I d love to participate on the ALF... but thats TOO far away...

Skip On Ocoee · Post by **Skip On Ocoee** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:55 pm

Thanks very much for the responses so far!!

I might actually be able to go to ALF if someone could throw me some of the details, i know its the second or third week of March, but i have no idea where, or what actually the ALF is.

Anyway, yes I would like to be able to front surf a hole without having my bow dip in the green(also known as pearling(?)) But moreover, i would just like to know how to control my boat better to set up for moves. I usually end up side surfing because that is the easiest way to keep control of my boat, BUT its rather hard to initiate moves such as a loop from a side surf, and I struggle very much to get back into a front surf(actually, its sort of rare for me to go from a side surf back to a front surf, when i try to return to front surf, i usually flip over

)

As for wave riding, thanks liskahon!! Those videos definatley are helping me to understand the techniques of wave riding. Is there much a difference in technique from riding a small wave and riding a big wave? I've seen some videos on Youtube of guys getting huge air on a wave like Buseater and then they can't keep their bow up in the air and they end up completely wiping out, my objective from this post would be to NOT end up like those guys

looking forward to seeing some posts.
thanks alot

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:14 pm

maybe this is too basic (if so sorry)...

getting from a side surf to somewhere else (without swimming) is usually a combination of timing, weight transfer, and boat placement...

the first thing is took look for a flow differential in the hole, as you move from one area to the next, the hole changes, look for these... such as a weakness in flow, a jet of faster flow, or simply going to the end/edge of said hole... in a best case scenario you will let the current do it for you

the second thing is body lean... not only left to right (upstream or down), but also bow to stern... this is not only the relationship of hull (bottom) angle to water, but also weight transfer and were it's being transfered to - this is partly timing, not muscle...your head is the leading indicator more often than not (funny how that works)... as you look at where you're going, you body will flow... this is really loading your torso up, so that the hull will follow ... it must follow as it's ATTACHED to YOU... (try it flip over, yep head down - top follows)

so now go to the current differential, looking at it... as you cross onto it, now (NOW) start looking at where you want to go...past where you are, the boat will follow... because if your looking far enough ahead the boat will be forced into the proper angle, by your weight ... if it isn't happening, twist your head some more ...imagine looking over your shoulder, and trying to see behind yourself

OK

if going forward onto faster flow (or end - yep faster there for sure), the bow will be forced downstream and your ready for a stern move, or keep going around till you've gone 270 degrees, you're now ready for a bow move... for this reason - lot's of times you'll go backward to the faster flow, so that it's only 90 degrees to the bow move

if you're having trouble simply moving... start rocking the boat, using sweeps and weighting bow and stern ... do sweeps front to back - and again back to front... from low brace position or from a more high brace - which will be more like slight draws done fore-n-aft... if this doesn't get the boat to moving by itself... do a little more aggressively, and one end will finally dip under water and the boat WILL TURN

if this was already common knowledge... sorry... maybe it'll help someone else

liskahon · Post by **liskahon** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:39 pm

Skip On Ocoee wrote: Anyway, yes I would like to be able to front surf a hole without having my bow dip in the green(also known as pearling(?)) But moreover, i would just like to know how to control my boat better to set up for moves. I usually end up side surfing because that is the easiest way to keep control of my boat, BUT its rather hard to initiate moves such as a loop from a side surf, and I struggle very much to get back into a front surf(actually, its sort of rare for me to go from a side surf back to a front surf, when i try to return to front surf, i usually flip over )

Try getting to the shoulders of the hole or lean VERY hard on your paddle and try to pull yourself up to the foam pile. Try also to exit from the hole and re-enter it again. It all depends on the type of hole

Skip On Ocoee wrote: As for wave riding, thanks liskahon!! Those videos definatley are helping me to understand the techniques of wave riding. Is there much a difference in technique from riding a small wave and riding a big wave? I've seen some videos on Youtube of guys getting huge air on a wave like Buseater and then they can't keep their bow up in the air and they end up completely wiping out, my objective from this post would be to NOT end up like those guys

If you watch this vid - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgBfAvNIN2U

That s me before I went to Uganda. I was pretty comfortable with onside/offside blunts backblunts and stuff... On the Nile Special I became pretty confident with onside airblunts on the second or third day... the clean panams came really soon
And the Lachines are way more user friendly than the Nile Special...
So I guess if you are doing this well on a small wave you wont have troubles on big ones (after a few days of training and temporary despair...)