I can front surf and on side surf no problem, but to go off side freaks me out and holds me back from trying 360s. I hate it when that upstream edge catches and flips me back upstream, plus you can get hurt being flipped back into the feature. I know that I need to keep the downstream edge down and the upstream edge up, but it feels so wierd when I am in the hole off side. So
I end up trying to avoid it versus trying it to get better at it.
Last year, I was starting to get the feel of it in my Skeeter, but this year in the Taureau off side seems way more tricky.
So how do you get the feel for side surfing on your off side? Just go for it and take your lumps or are there any balance tricks, tips or exercises to help?
Off side Surfing and Spins
Moderators: kenneth, sbroam, TheKrikkitWars, Mike W., Sir Adam, KNeal, PAC, adamin
No expert here but
An instructor at NOC has you do flat spins down an eddy line- it really helps me smooth out edge transitions when I do a 360 (and don't flip)
instead of playing stupid open boater... just go find one of those young guys in a kayak, and ask him how to do a 360... he'll teach you how to follow your head, and all about loading up your lower torso ... it's works the same in a canoe as a kayak... and don't keep leaning that boat downstream, you'll just end up letting water in from that side ... it ain't the boat if it's a skeeter or taureau... you can get dizzy in either one
spinning
When spinning, really work to get comfy with your offside transition. Also, be sure to look (turn your head) in the direction that you're spinning. This helps everything else (chest, torso, and boat) to follow.
Adam Trunnell
STAY FLAT !
Doesn't matter which side your paddling, your boat should always be levelled with equal weight on each knee. You can cheat a little when side surfing (not to windowshade) but as little as possible, you'll flush out if you lean downstream too much(edge will grabe)...
The blade is just there to help, boat attitude and body language are the most important points here, work with the water not against it...try off side without the blade in the water, just feel it with your hand downstream(AND STAY FLAT).
From there off side is just cool to watch and almost as easy as strong side.
Keep at it...NEVER GIVE UP !
Doesn't matter which side your paddling, your boat should always be levelled with equal weight on each knee. You can cheat a little when side surfing (not to windowshade) but as little as possible, you'll flush out if you lean downstream too much(edge will grabe)...
The blade is just there to help, boat attitude and body language are the most important points here, work with the water not against it...try off side without the blade in the water, just feel it with your hand downstream(AND STAY FLAT).
From there off side is just cool to watch and almost as easy as strong side.
Keep at it...NEVER GIVE UP !
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amollohan99
- Pain Boater
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OK ... I've had my fun - now to help maybe... everything everybody said... and
pleeaazzee bear with me... these are from a slalom race, had a good first run and was play'n around on second run, that's way these are so rushed, and paddle intensive... you really don't need to paddle so hard, in fact hardly at all (in a good hole)
1) simple side surf, boat relatively flat
2) (this time) starting in forward surf, was to help gain some momentun... note head - your body will follow your head, your lower body is attached to upper, and boat is attached to the lower body... using a little forward sweep/reverse combination
3) head still leading, looking around to back -simply continue same initial move... getting paddle ready for reverse sweep
4) still look around (could of been more), and finishing up with onside portion
5) crossing over, not always necessary if easy surf (was in a hurry racing)
6) head still leading, notice how torso is loaded up... this actually pulls the boat around with your body - the boat has to come around
7) boat is following my head around... notice how paddle is almost in the same place, goal is not to sweep blade across the water, goal is to rotate boat around, while paddle stays in place
stroke was not really necessary, lean was
9) starting over again...this was a race, so three and out (without letting any water in)
couple things:
look for a current differential in the hole, or a place where the water is flowing back upstream - this is where to 360... else go to one end, and let the downstream water help pull boat around
ideally the boat stays atop the differential, around and around with the flow... onto the faster water with one end (this is letting the water work for you) and the other end on slower
most important the head... sitting in flat water twist - looking as far behind and around as possible, notice how the boat wants to start and to turn on it's own, without any blade help... this is part because of torso loading... the rest is from lean - as you lead head first, your body mechanics also cause the hull to list or lean in the proper orientation
gaining too much spinning speed can cause you to spin off the hole or wave, sometimes you have to slow down to stay... you actually get going too fast and fling off
to sort of get the feel, reach way out to your onside, holding the paddle with one hand, down the shaft to just above water, shaft pointing straight up... with other hand grab opposite gunwale.... now pull the gunwale arm to the other, using lower body... feel how boat feels pulled around, this is how the boat should feel
((in fact this is how all your turns should feel, using your lower body... not some weak armed pulling the blade through the water))
good luck, have fun, and pass the knowledge on - if this works for you
pleeaazzee bear with me... these are from a slalom race, had a good first run and was play'n around on second run, that's way these are so rushed, and paddle intensive... you really don't need to paddle so hard, in fact hardly at all (in a good hole)
1) simple side surf, boat relatively flat
2) (this time) starting in forward surf, was to help gain some momentun... note head - your body will follow your head, your lower body is attached to upper, and boat is attached to the lower body... using a little forward sweep/reverse combination
3) head still leading, looking around to back -simply continue same initial move... getting paddle ready for reverse sweep
4) still look around (could of been more), and finishing up with onside portion
5) crossing over, not always necessary if easy surf (was in a hurry racing)
6) head still leading, notice how torso is loaded up... this actually pulls the boat around with your body - the boat has to come around
7) boat is following my head around... notice how paddle is almost in the same place, goal is not to sweep blade across the water, goal is to rotate boat around, while paddle stays in place
stroke was not really necessary, lean was 9) starting over again...this was a race, so three and out (without letting any water in)
couple things:
look for a current differential in the hole, or a place where the water is flowing back upstream - this is where to 360... else go to one end, and let the downstream water help pull boat around
ideally the boat stays atop the differential, around and around with the flow... onto the faster water with one end (this is letting the water work for you) and the other end on slower
most important the head... sitting in flat water twist - looking as far behind and around as possible, notice how the boat wants to start and to turn on it's own, without any blade help... this is part because of torso loading... the rest is from lean - as you lead head first, your body mechanics also cause the hull to list or lean in the proper orientation
gaining too much spinning speed can cause you to spin off the hole or wave, sometimes you have to slow down to stay... you actually get going too fast and fling off
to sort of get the feel, reach way out to your onside, holding the paddle with one hand, down the shaft to just above water, shaft pointing straight up... with other hand grab opposite gunwale.... now pull the gunwale arm to the other, using lower body... feel how boat feels pulled around, this is how the boat should feel
((in fact this is how all your turns should feel, using your lower body... not some weak armed pulling the blade through the water))
good luck, have fun, and pass the knowledge on - if this works for you
Last edited by philcanoe on Fri May 09, 2008 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sbroam
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Philcanoe - nice, very nice - Scott
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OC1_SURFER
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sbroam
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blink - the light came on yesterday. Between actually having some water, the posts above, and adjusting the trim in the boat it all finally clicked. Had some nice side surf spots yesterday and finally went all the way around. And around and around...
Let the boat go around to 90 degrees from the hole, shifted the weight to the other knee, gentle reverse sweep, and reached back to *look* at the stern and around it came... Just loading up and *looking* at the stern brought the boat around - no paddle - dang, what a feeling! Sweet! Merry Christmas to me! And y'all too!
Let the boat go around to 90 degrees from the hole, shifted the weight to the other knee, gentle reverse sweep, and reached back to *look* at the stern and around it came... Just loading up and *looking* at the stern brought the boat around - no paddle - dang, what a feeling! Sweet! Merry Christmas to me! And y'all too!
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Dooleyoc-1
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Phil,
What a great series of pics to help people learn how to do 360's. Very cool.
I'll add one thing. Mark Scriver told me one time that it's easier to do 360's to your off-side because you have more power with both strokes when you are spinning to your off-side. I agree with him. I can spin both ways but I have more power on an off-side 360 (you just have to be a little more comfortable with your offside to start spinning that way and commit to it).
Phil, do you have any pics that you could post of a 360 in the opposite direction to your off-side?
What a great series of pics to help people learn how to do 360's. Very cool.
I'll add one thing. Mark Scriver told me one time that it's easier to do 360's to your off-side because you have more power with both strokes when you are spinning to your off-side. I agree with him. I can spin both ways but I have more power on an off-side 360 (you just have to be a little more comfortable with your offside to start spinning that way and commit to it).
Phil, do you have any pics that you could post of a 360 in the opposite direction to your off-side?
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Dooleyoc-1
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Also, one more thing...
***Phil said this and he is dead on. The most important thing to remember when doing a 360 is to lead with your head***. You need to look the direction you want to spin and the rest of your body will follow and the boat will spin around.
Eli taught me this. It doesn't matter which direction you are spinning you have to lead with your head and aggressively look the way you want to spin. Phil does a great job of this and you can see it in the pics.
It's the same principle as doing a Helicopter (360) when you are skiing. When I learned how to do that jump my friend that was teaching me showed me how to load my torso and throw my head and upper body in the direction I wanted to spin and presto! Your lower body follows you around and you've done a 360.
***Phil said this and he is dead on. The most important thing to remember when doing a 360 is to lead with your head***. You need to look the direction you want to spin and the rest of your body will follow and the boat will spin around.
Eli taught me this. It doesn't matter which direction you are spinning you have to lead with your head and aggressively look the way you want to spin. Phil does a great job of this and you can see it in the pics.
It's the same principle as doing a Helicopter (360) when you are skiing. When I learned how to do that jump my friend that was teaching me showed me how to load my torso and throw my head and upper body in the direction I wanted to spin and presto! Your lower body follows you around and you've done a 360.